FLDS Parents Could Face Charges for Abandoning their "Lost Boys"

KCPW News ^ | February 14, 2008

[Zakeet]

They're called the "Lost Boys," the teenagers kicked out of their homes and communities by leaders of the polygamist Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to ensure there's an ample supply of single, young women who will one day become plural wives. Representative Lorie Fowlke (R-Orem), is running a bill to make this abandonment a felony.

"Estimates are that we've had more than 1,000 children - primarily in southern Utah - thrown out of their homes," Fowlke says. "What we were trying to do with this bill is criminalize this behavior and send a message to this community that they can't just throw away their children."

H.B. 23 adds child abandonment to the definition of child abuse, and makes it a felony crime. It also adds an enhancement if a parent or organization benefits from the child's abandonment to further an illegal enterprise, such as polygamy. This is the case with the FLDS church, says Roger Hoole, a lawyer who represents some of the displaced young men and sits on the board for the Utah Association for Justice. He says the church benefits from kicking out young men who would compete for plural wives. This, he says, has devastating consequences.

"There's a huge impact that's coming, like a tsunami, that's going to hit the state of Utah, when these boys get a little older and realize what has happened to them and get angry," Hoole says. "There's a real problem here."

Fowlke's bill gained unanimous support in a Senate committee this morning, and now heads to the full Senate for consideration.

[nicmarlo]

fofl!

[Elsie]

 

Trying to apply natural man knowledge to what did or didn’t take place is all specultion.

 

That ISN'T what your book says:

 

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 9

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, April 1829. HC 1: 37–38. Oliver is admonished to be patient, and is urged to be content to write, for the time being, at the dictation of the translator, rather than to attempt to translate. 1–6, Other ancient records are yet to be translated; 7–14, The Book of Mormon is translated by study and by spiritual confirmation.

 

1 Behold, I say unto you, my son, that because you did not translate according to that which you desired of me, and did commence again to write for my servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., even so I would that ye should continue until you have finished this record, which I have entrusted unto him.

2 And then, behold, other records have I, that I will give unto you power that you may assist to translate.

3 Be patient, my son, for it is wisdom in me, and it is not expedient that you should translate at this present time.

4 Behold, the work which you are called to do is to write for my servant Joseph.

5 And, behold, it is because that you did not continue as you commenced, when you began to translate, that I have taken away this privilege from you.

6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.

7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must cask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

10 Now, if you had known this you could have translated; nevertheless, it is not expedient that you should translate now.

11 Behold, it was expedient when you commenced; but you feared, and the time is past, and it is not expedient now;

12 For, do you not behold that I have given unto my servant Joseph sufficient strength, whereby it is made up? And neither of you have I condemned.

13 Do this thing which I have commanded you, and you shall prosper. Be faithful, and yield to no temptation.

14 Stand fast in the work wherewith I have called you, and a hair of your head shall not be lost, and you shall be lifted up at the last day. Amen.

[Elsie]

If any of you lack wisdom, ...

Since I do NOT lack Wisdom; I can read the Bible and see that your founder, a mere 14 yo, ignorant farm boy when two deceiving spirits contacted him, was led astray because he did NOT have wisdom.

If he had been aware of the Bibles warning about such encounters, we would not be having this conversation.

[Elsie]

Thanks for what you do.

I detect a suckup!

;^)

[greyfoxx39]

You say: Those scriptures I gave pretty much describes the degrees of what I said

So, are you saying that those FReepers you accuse of being "natural man" are guilty of all these sins, while you yourself are not? This appears to be a pretty nasty insult to those you keep calling the "natural man".

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor. 2: 14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

19 For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit

I guess I'll remember this the next time I see that term used.

[Elsie]

“Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures,...

Wait for the spin...

[Elsie]

Ca-Ching!

[Elsie]

So who are the "swine" here?

Why... non-Temple worthy 'christians'; of course!

--MoprmonDude(Don't you know how to UNDERSTAND scripture; Gentile?)

[MHGinTN]

It can at times get quite dizzying!

[MHGinTN]

Oops, sorry, interrupted an Elsie marathon.

[andysandmikesmom]

Ah, the ‘Born Again’ subject...I disagree with you, about what you have said...and for this reason...

I have noted on various religion threads, that there is a very distinct differing of opinions, as to how this ‘born again’ experience comes about...I have noted that those supporting Calvinism, have said that one is ‘born again’ first, regenerated first by God, and then after that comes repentance...in other Christian religions it is turned the other way around...first one repents, and then comes regeneration, of being ‘born again’...

These are two very different views as to how becoming ‘born again’ comes about...is it regeneration first, and repentance afterwards, or is it repentance first, and regeneration afterwards...

The Calvinist, from what I have gleaned off of FR, maintains, that man in his state, simply cannot repent, because he is unable, because he is as if ‘dead’...only regeneration, coming first from God, can enliven someone to the point where they can ask for forgiveness....the other Christians, maintain, that man, can recognize his need for forgiveness and is fully capable of asking for true forgiveness, and if he is sincere, than the regeneration will come about...so from I have been able to gather, according to the Calvinists, God will cause a regeneration in whoever he wishes to, regardless of that persons wishes...in fact the very act of being regenerated may come clear out of the blue, occur in an instant, and virtually this person is transformed or is ‘born again’...then and only then can he even begin to repent, because the very act of being born again, has allowed that person to actually see, how very rotten and unpleasing to God he is...with other Christian religions, it seems to be, that man, as he is, can recognize how rotten and unpleasing to God he is, and can ask for forgiveness for that and then be born again...

The two orders are completely reversed....

I think these very different perspectives on this ‘born again’ or regeneration subject need to be addressed...it truly is not just after being ‘born again’ that differences in doctrinal methodology pop up...those differences pop up, before the born again occurence ever takes place...

You have mentioned the Mormon response to being being ‘born again’ and I was noted, by another poster, I have watched Arnold Murray, and his take on this ‘born again’, is completely different...Murray contends, that the phrase ‘born again’ actually means, born from water, or in other words, born of woman...to distinguish those humans born of human mothers, as opposed to say spirits coming down and inhabiting human form...a view, quite out of mainstream Christianity, but there you have Murrays teachings on this subject..

So I really am in disagreement with you here...the differences that members of many different Christian religions have with one another, occur before and after ‘born again’, and for many Christian churches, these very differences, minute as some of them may be, are important enough for them to believe, that upon these very minute differences, their salvation is at stake...

[Elsie]

And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom...

Just WHO 'gave' them to Saul to begin with?

I see no mention of WIVES that were NOT Saul's being 'given' to him.

---

Ironically, many Jews today still practice it. It's not against their law or history.

As your group used to do; before they chickened out.

It's not against YOUR law or history, either.

[Elsie]

That’s just not kosher! ;-)

LOL!

(Jewish dilemma: Ham at half-price!)

[Elsie]

 

 

 

 

 

                                         Decisions decisions!

 

Fanny Alger Lucinda Morgan Harris Louisa Beaman Zina Huntington Jacobs Presendia Huntington Buell Agnes Coolbrith Sylvia Sessions Lyon Mary Rollins Lightner Patty Bartlett Sessions Marinda Johnson Hyde Elizabeth Davis Durfee Sarah Kingsley Cleveland Delcena Johnson Eliza R. Snow Sarah Ann Whitney Martha McBride Knight Ruth Vose Sayers Flora Ann Woodworth Emily Dow Partridge Eliza Maria Partridge Almera Johnson Lucy Walker Sarah Lawrence Maria Lawrence Helen Mar Kimball Hanna Ells Elvira Cowles Holmes Rhoda Richards Desdemona Fullmer Olive Frost Melissa Lott Nancy Winchester Fanny Young

Emma Hale only!!

 

[restornu]

Thank for sharing those wonderful warm moments those expression and places in the heart are all a witness to the Love of the Lord.

You said a young son passed away if you care to share how that happen I am so sorry to hear of lost, we all expect loves to go but a child resides in a different place that is hard to take.

[greyfoxx39]

Sevenbak: I predict you are only looking for further ammunition to do harm to others, and getting the quiet witness of the Lord with such motives can 'prove' difficult.

Elsie:"And I thought that our intent of re-publishing the things that LDS, Inc. tends to hide was fairly obscure."

I guess we are supposed to believe that posting things that tend to be hidden is "doing harm to others"? I don't have a problem in "getting the quiet witness of the Lord" do you? Of course, there are those who would claim to know our hearts and status with Christ and can "predict" our motives.

[restornu]

Are we not all sinners at one time or another is that news to you?

[Elsie]

 

The same way I reconcile God’s ancient prophets who had multiple wives.

How do you 'reconcile' the fact that  THESE guys did NOT follow the SCRIPTURE that they had placed into THEIR hands??

 

     

                          Smith                                                                        Young                                                                         Taylor                                                            Pratt

 

 

   

                      Snow                                                           Kimball                                    Woodruff

 

 

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 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

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And they didn't pay any attention to the Restorative Power  of the Book of Mormon; either!!

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

 

[Elsie]

Do you really want me to go and find a list of all the biblical prophets and patriarchs and their multiple wives?

Go for it; but it has no bearing on today's church.

Or the one started 2000 years ago; either!

[nicmarlo]

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations

I note that the works of the flesh include "adultery, fornication, lasciviousness." These things He condemns in Christians, according to the Scriptures. What all is encompassed by "witchcraft," exactly, according to God's Word?