Posted on 02/19/2008 4:46:10 PM PST by Zakeet
In his pursuit of the presidency, Mitt Romney held fast to his Mormon faith, though his religion remains controversial with evangelicals and some other Christians. But his determined (and ultimately futile) wooing of evangelicals led him to make some statements that didn't quite square with Mormon beliefs and culture. And the effort itself may have deepened the impression of him as inauthentic—even to some fellow Mormons.
Early in his presidential bid, Romney was asked what he thought of polygamy. Prompted by what they considered a divine revelation, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued the practice more than a century ago, and the church distances itself from polygamist "fundamentalists." But Romney went one step further, saying he couldn't "imagine anything more awful than polygamy." Many Mormons were privately taken aback. Mormons believe that, in its time, "plural marriage" was a commandment from God, and they are, as a group, fiercely proud of their ancestors, hundreds of whom practiced polygamy. (Romney's own great-grandfather had five wives.) LDS church members loathe the polygamy stereotypes and jokes bandied by outsiders. But hearing Romney—the most recognizable face of their faith these days—disavow it in those terms was mildly unsettling to LDS insiders.
Others were puzzled to hear Romney say he reads the Gideon Bible—a version popular with evangelicals: Mormons uniformly study the King James version, in a Salt Lake edition that is cross-referenced to all other Mormon scripture. "Seems like he just figured he had to say the safest, most Protestant thing he could think of—that was kind of annoying," says Russell Arben Fox, a Mormon professor of political science at Friends University in Wichita, Kans.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsweek.com ...
Jesus was never "voted in", he is the same yesterday, tomorrow and forever.
You do realize he said what I quoted a few years ago, so you still believe this:
And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. – Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11
So you agree with the Book of Mormon that there were absolutely no Christians on earth when Joseph Smith got his "revelation?"
You don't understand that the Church of God, the Bible and Jesus Christ is composed of everyone that has made the Biblical commitment to Jesus, his teachings and follows them?
They have been around since the beginning, some not associated with the "great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."
Again, do you believe the above quote from the BOM and write off all Christians except those of the Mormon church?
Last time I was in a hotel the Gideon Bible was a King James Version. Or do you mainstreamers have some super secret new version you are hiding behind?
Its hard to follow you. What are you trying to say?
What about when Christ was baptized? God the Father spoke from Heaven, and the Holy Ghost descended as a dove. There were three personages.
_________________________________________________
The Triune God...
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit...
Jesus knew that people with too much education would not grasp Biblical concepts with their natural mind..
That’s why he said we must be like a child and have a child’s faith to understand God..
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven...Matthew 18:3, 4 Mark 10:15
What are you asking ???
And why ????
You are dealing with the unstable LOL
Joseph had told his neighbor, Joshua McKune, that "his (Smith's) first born child was to translate the characters and hieroglyphics upon the plates, into our language, at the age of three years." (The Susquehanna Register, May 1, 1834, p.1). When this child died at birth instead....
Yet another false prophecy........
Are you easily swayed by “alleged” stories that have no evidence? Do you not have any critical thinking skills. Do you accept everything you hear on TV too? Does any of this really matter to you? Even if this was true, what do you want? Do you think Joseph should have been perfect? What does any of this prove? How does this help you? Why do you spend your time on it?
I think you are right. These guys have all these unsubstantiated quotes from 150 years ago and comparison charts at their fingertips. Makes you wonder what they do all day.
A perfect question...that you could ask yourself..........
We thought it was a disgrace to the church to have a practicing necromancer, a dealer in enchantments and bleeding ghosts, in it.”
WOW
Joseph Smith was already a false prophet at age 23
Thanks, I do constantly. What’s funny, is that a poster will post some highly suspicious material, and a few posters will say “wow, oh my goodness, they are frauds” without even taking a second to question the source. No reasonable or honest person does that. It is pretty clear what’s going on here. It is kind of sad.
NO ... and that's why I reject Joseph's story of the golden plates, the Book of Mormon, the First Vision, and so many other things pertaining to Mormonism.
Re: Does any of this really matter to you?
YES ... and that's why I am one of many Christians who refute the false claims of Mormonism with hard facts.
Re: Do you think Joseph should have been perfect?
NO ... but I believe Joseph, like any other self-proclaimed prophet, should judged and held accountable to the standards set by God in Deuteronomy 18:20-22
Re: What does any of this prove?
JOSEPH SMITH IS A FALSE PROPHET
Re: How does this help you?
IT DOESN'T ... I can't think of one personal benefit which accrues as a result of these postings
Re: Why do you spend your time on it?
BECAUSE JESUS LOVES EVERYONE ... even lost souls following a false prophet ... AND HE COMMENDED HIS FOLLOWERS TO PROCLAIM THE TRUTH
So "God told you that Jesus Christ lived in Israel"...did God also tell you that Jesus was born in "Jerusalem" as the Book of Mormon erroneously claims? (Alma 7:10). How could this be (as LDS leaders have claimed) the "most correct book on earth" if Smith couldn't it get right--yet Micah was perfectly able to do so prophetically well in advance?
(Micah was even able to pinpoint which Bethlehem it was...for there were two...by saying it was the smaller of the two...Bethlehem Ephrata...Jerusalem was a totally separate city--not a region or province or state. In fact it was a "walled city." Anything outside of the wall was outside of Jerusalem.)
So if I wanted to, I could pray to your god about where Jesus died, and if he revealed to me that he died in Los Angeles, that kind of "answer" receiving from him is A-OK?
If Joseph was just having teen hormones The Spirit of God would not be testifying of his work.
Then how do you explain Amulek making a similar claim? Amulek said in Alma 11:22, that if it be according to the Spirit of the Lord, which is in me; for I shall say nothing which is contrary to the Spirit of the Lord…So what did Amulek go on to say a few verses later?
(1) According to the Spirit of the Lord…in me he said there is A true and living god…
(2) …and No--there’s no more than one God (Alma 11:26-31)
(3) …and not only does Amulek claim he speaks nothing contrary to the Spirit of the Lord, but he adds that he knows these things because an angel hath made them known unto me in verse 31.
DU, how many gods do you believe there are? ONLY “One” like Amulek and the Bible claims? (Or if LDS don’t like that answer, they can keep praying unto God until they seem to receive an answer they like?) Which "spirit" was believeable--the one speaking alongside an angel to Amulek? Or the "spirit" speaking to Smith that led him to talk about many gods and a "council of gods" very late in his life?
Here’s Alma 11:22, 26-31:
And Amulek said unto him: Yea, if it be according to the Spirit of the Lord, which is in me; for I shall say nothing which is contrary to the Spirit of the Lord. And Zeezrom said unto him: Behold, here are six onties of silver, and all these will I give thee if thou wilt deny the existence of a Supreme Being. And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God? And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God. Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. Now Zeezrom said unto him again: How knowest thou these things? And he said: An angel hath made them known unto me.”
Do you mean to say that if I pray to God about how many “Holy Ghosts” there are he might answer & testify unto me that there are many? (Why would we also need to pray about the clear things already revealed in the Bible? What? You accuse the Holy Ghost of being a poor communicator?)
I have read the Book of Momron and prayed about it…
DU, which version did you pray about?
Did you pray about the 1830 version? Or a much later version?
Did you pray about the 1 Nephi 18:18-32 1830 version (p. 25), or the 1 Nephi 18:18-32 reprint version where the “everlasting God” is edited out without you even being told?
Did you pray about the 1830 version of the Book of Mormon (p. 200), where it mentions King Benjamin in Mosiah 21:28 & Ether 4:1…but then is later changed (minus any footnote in the Book of Mormon to tell us of the change) to King Mosiah? Or did you pray about a reprint version? [Why was this changed? Because 1 of 2 things happened: If the Book of Mormon is true, then King Benjamin who dies in Mosiah 6:4-5 pops back up alive again in Mosiah 21…and LDS leaders wanted to deny an untold story here of a resurrection of King Benjamin…but LDS leaders, not believing that such a fantastic story such as a real resurrection would have been omitted by the story-teller, decides that what was alleged by Smith was flat-out wrong…and decided to change history…Imagine that, these gold plates preserving the record of King Benjamin all these millennia only to have LDS “editors” come along and change history!]
Well, what implications do these and the other thousands of errors in the Book of Mormon have? It means the angel who communicated to Smith was wrong. The “witnesses” to the translation process have already said that the plates were revealed unto Smith character by character until it comprised a line upon line…until completion, where an angel supposedly appeared to Smith and said: "These plates have been translated by the power of God. The translation of them which you have seen is correct, and I command you to bear record of what you now see and hear." (Joseph Smith in "History of the Church" vol. 1, p. 55)
Now was the angel wrong here, DU? Was this angel fired upon returning for getting her “review” wrong when the angel concluded that the translation of them which you have seen is correct? Which of these angels (Moroni, etc ) were right and which were wrong?
… becasue we said all other churhces are wrong, so I wondered if you also called Catholics name (we are all heritics together according to them.) If you that is your reason for calling us neame, do you callt hem names, if you don't call them names, why?
DU, allow me to explain the difference to you of an “apostate” vs. a “heretic.” I’ve seen a few FReeper posts that say, “LDS call Christians ‘apostates’; Christians call LDS ‘heretics.’ So it’s a ‘wash.’” Here’s the problem with that statement:
First of all, somebody can be either aberrant or “heretical” in one belief but be orthodox on almost everything else. For example, a 7th-day Adventist could believe that EVERYBODY must worship on Saturdays, and that the only true Christians are those who reserve Saturdays for the Sabath…but they could be orthodox on most everything else. An “apostate” on the other hand describes somebody who has completely left his faith. Mormons are referencing us as a total spiritual wash!!! I don’t believe about Mormons, for example, what their “Scripture” says about Christians: That “ALL” creeds we hold are an “abomination in his sight.” Nor would I claim that ALL professing Mormon believers are “corrupt”—yet the LDS “Scripture” maintains this when it describes those of "Christian sects."
Finally whatever “names” have been called of others with different beliefs, you’d be quite hard-pressed to find chapter and verse in the Bible that would prove a direct linkage…there’s no passage in Revelation for example, in talking about the 7 churches, where it says “Oh, and this 8th church over here, the Church of Mormo, it’s heretical.” (That can’t be said of LDS “Scriptures” where it specifically references “Christian sects” as being “ALL wrong” and not worthy of joining).
Joseph Smith's told stories which have swayed you. One of his stories, without evidence, concerns gold tablets that no one could see because "angels brought took them back." No evidence, just his stories...and that was told to his contemporaries.
The other stories he wrote contradict what's in the Scriptures. God is not a divided God, He is whole. But the stories you believe, which contradict Scripture, you accept, despite the fact that they contradict God's Word. I'd say it's you and Smith's followers who lack "critical thinking" skills. But this is because your minds have become clouded and your thinking foolish, as the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans concerning those who turn away from God and His Word.
Where is the evidence of Joseph Smith's vision and visitation with the Heavenly Father and Jesus?
Where are the plates of Gold that Smith dug up out of the ground?
Where is the archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon?
Even if this was* true....
Are you admitting to the possibility that it is true?
* The subjunctive mood requires "were" instead of "was".
Okay. While I reject everything you just posted, I still don’t see what the problem is. Are you conservative? Do you hate me? Would you vote for me if I can show you I agree with you on the issues?
No, I am admitting that it doesn’t matter. I can’t prove it to you, its called faith for a reason. You have to ask God what is true. My whole point in all of this is to find out why any of this matters when it comes to uniting in the conservative cause.
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