Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
January 25, 2008
ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.
My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.
I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.
It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.
I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.
Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."
Thank you. Much better.
It's not just, "Give laundry list; get absolved." It's "Give laundry list; be contrite; get absolved." If you are not as contrite as you can be, even if that's only a little, then you are messing with a sacrament.
It's hard, sometimes to wrap this up with the concept of "ex opere operato" because it sounds sort of like it's up to the penitent.
For someone very immature, contrition is just,"Don't be mad at me!" Maybe some people never get past that. But as we grow we hope that we get a better sense of what it means to be a sinner AND what our particular sins mean in terms of slap in the face to God, harm to others and to ourselves. Maybe as we grow in grace we see how we are like swine before whom pearls have been cast. And we just go on grunting and digging with our noses and treading anything underfoot -- and we seem to keep on doing that even when we know we're doing it. And then we may see that the pearls (metaphor shift, fasten your seat belt) are really the wounds and blood and agony of Christ, and that our grumping at our family or sulking even after we realize we're sulking lends force to the hammer that drives the nails into his hand and makes gravity's pull on his hanging body even stronger.
But all these are contrition, and one of them, or something like it, is an essential part of the sacrament.
So back to our excommunicate bad guy. If he is NOT repentant but confesses because he just likes going to church or something, he's just abused the sacrament and, in essence, indicated to himself that he isn't really interested in being absolved. He needs a miracle. Fortunately Christ has provided one, but it's still an open question whether our bogus penitent will avail himself of it.
If a Catholic penitent were to come to me and say,"How can I know if I'm contrite enough?" I'd say, "What are you, Lutheran or something? Of COURSE you're not contrite enough! don't waste your time with that question. It's the devil's question, trying to get you to focus on you and what you can do to be saved (hint: nothing!) - that way IS pride and lies madness! Focus on God, and if you fear you are not contrite, ask Him to give you mo' better contrition. He loves you and wants to help. Trust Him."
Gotta go do my vain repetitions and idolatrous worship. I hope I was clear and useful.
Yes indeed! In fact, "born again Christian" is my all time favorite redundancy. :) Thank you so much for the wonderful scriptures!
Every Christian has the indwelling Spirit.
Yes, and He's not a renter. :)
Every Christian has spiritual discernment.
Yes, not just those of a certain class.
But that looks like having man determining what the spiritual gifts are since men determine who is to be ordained. I didn't think that was possible. I have said before that if I temporary lost my mind (more than usual) and decided to go on some sort of unchristian and perverse "mission" in order to prove a point, I think I could enter a Catholic seminary and wind up being ordained as a Catholic priest. You could do the same at a Baptist seminary. We could both say whatever we needed to say and jump through whatever hoops were necessary. But then, it appears that under Catholicism I would be given spiritual gifts by (through?) other men and it would all be a fraud. That's why I would think that spiritual gifts can ONLY come from God directly.
Yup, I fully agree. In the Senate we have too many seats to defend and too many retirements. I'm not optimistic about the Senate at all. The House could possibly coattail our way.
You folks might just love these..
http://www.interviewwithgod.com/psalm23.htm
http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven/index.htm
Dear All & hosepipe . . .
be warned . . . McAfee notes that
entering an email at those two interesting links
resulted in 4-5 emails or so per week. They considered it very spammy.
It's what "apostle" means For reasons best known to Himself God decided to delegate some stuff to human-type personnel. I wouldn't have done it, myself.
Also this is where you have to sort of pore through the catechism and lots of conciliar documents AND/OR read some "ordinals". Loosely speaking the Church tries to "discern" a "call", not issue one. The language is very much, "seeing if you have a call", not "deciding whether or not to ordain you." I suppose it's a matter of trust which one you think it actually is. And the gifts are given by God, just as God acts in every sacrament, according to His promise, we would say. The bishop doesn't make someone a priest, God uses a bishop to make someone a priest.
But where are we on the "class" issue? I don't want to get into another question if we haven't dealt with the prior one
I have observed that
spiritual gifts can still be imparted by the laying on of hands . . .
However, NOT at MAN’s whims.
Not to be saved.
Mark 1:8 I indeed baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
Are you not required to repent?
What happens first belief or repentance? Why would you be repentant of something you didn't believe.
We understand that Jesus shows us the Way. We must walk it. I understand that the Reformed do not believe that they need to walk anywhere. The belief is that they are already there.
Unfortunately for you it always goes back to works. It's to bad after all these threads and posts that you don't understand the non RC's. I can understand the reverse since the books containing your rules and regulations are thicker than Scripture itself.
Times like this I think the end is tomorrow.
At bottom, the “always and everywhere believed” claim is empty and our young in Christ should not be confounded by it or other such claim of supreme, exclusive authority to convey the words of God, e.g. Mormonism and Catholicism. Obviously, for one to be right about exclusive authority, the other would have to be wrong - and I submit that puts too much pressure on new Christians.
Rather, I aver we ought to encourage the young in Christ to love God surpassingly above all else, submit to Him. And we ought to trust Him that He will guide them according to His own will – which may or may not include submitting to an assembly which claims exclusive authority. At the very least, we ought never become an obstruction.
But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
And he took them up in his arms, put [his] hands upon them, and blessed them. – Mark 10:13-16
Peter was not like John who was not like Paul who was not like James who was not like doubting Thomas - but Christ chose each one of them. Moreover, He did not treat them exactly the same.
Likewise the foundation of the New Jerusalem is comprised of twelve very different gemstones, one for each apostle. The twelve gates, named for the tribes of Israel, by contrast, are all pearls.
And again in the description of the gifts of the Spirit and the body of Christ in I Corinthians 12 we see that not every Christian has the same gifts, calling or responsibility.
Therefore I aver it is spiritually wrong-headed to ever judge or condemn a person at all, much less one who is declaring Christ but additional doctrines and traditions which seem strange.
These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. – Proverbs 6:16-19
To God be the glory!
The Eucharist is an expression of communion in the same faith. It is not a means towards a union, but an expression of such a union. Those who are one in faith commune in faith as one in Christ.
The Eucharist would be denied in the Catholic Church to me and to you, not because we are "less worthy" then our Latin brothers, but because neither you nor I profess the same faith as they do.
For the same reason, you and they would be denied Eucharist in an Orthodox church.
Some Orthodox churches will allow Ethiopian or Coptic Orthodox to receive communion of there are no Ethiopian or Coptic churches around, but technically they are not in communion with the rest of the Orthodox world.
In most Orthodox churches, the priest will remind the congregation before offering the Eucharist that only Orthodox Christians, who have properly prepared, through confession, prayer and fasting, can receive the Mysterium.
Your comment above "but a lying, cheating, murdering, raping, unrepentant Roman Catholic is perfectly welcome to and it is proper for him to receive it?" is false only for one reason, unrepenting. For grieveous offenses, such as rape and murder, an Orthodox priest may impose a period of non-communion, not as punishment, but as a time to reflect on their sin and unceasing prayers. It's not enough to simply say "I am sorry."
Confession is not a get-out-of-jail card one can just whip out and go about his business. I hope you realize that, in dealing with the public, it is impossible to set inflexible rules and that each person is a unique specimen and must be seen in context of his or her realities, both spiritual and physical.
I think you are taking this issue of being denied communion way too personally.
Apropos of inter-communing, I think its important to add that in Orthodoxy, living a lifestyle condemned condemned by The Church will also result in a refusal of communion. For example, a couple living together without being married, marriage outside The Church, leading a life of criminal activity, that sort of thing will all result in a denial of the sacrament.
That's because how we live is more important than what we preach. If you live a saintly life because you are saintly, you don't need to preach. Your actions will speak for themselves.
You can be quoting scriptures to me all day long, but unless what you peach matches how you live, it's a dead faith. Scriptures tell us that Christ not only preached the Good News, but also lived an impeccably virtuous life.
After all these posts the Protestants still don't get it that words are cheap and that we can all make ourselves into whatever we want others to beleve we are with words. But, in the end, it's what we do that matters.
Preaching proves nothing. Living does.
Yes, Kolo, very true. Thanks for "filling in" on this important aspect. I just got trough posting to wmfights and Mark how important it is that we live our faith and not just preach. Real saints don't have to preach anything. Their lives are sermons without words.
The problem with preaching is that, with words, we can create whatever we want others to believe about us. There is simply no way of proving us wrong. Who but the devil could have devised something so appealing to humanity and yet so patently false!?
Apostolic Christianity, especially Orthodoxy, is very Jewish in that, when it comes to faith, we place emphasis on how we live more than what we preach. Doing the mitzvot (God's commandments) as part of our daily life is the whole essence of our faith: forgiveness, mercy, charity, compassion, repentance, etc. are all more important than having memorized all the cherry-picked verses.
In our homiies every Sunday, we are told how to live a virtuous life, based on the life of Chirst, as narrated in the Gospels. It's the message behind the verses read that matter more than the exact words.
I saw the "Fidler on the Roof" the other day (again for the nth time) and couldn't help but chuckle when the local tailor obtained a sewing machine and the whole village came to see it. Then the rabbi showed up and someone asked if if he could bless the sewing machine! Then someone asked, "is there a blessing for a sewing machine?" And the rabbi replied "there is a blessing for everything." This is where we get our mindset. That could have been an Orthodox priest for all you know, and he would have given the same answer!
Boasting with words about the "indwelling spirit" or being the "mouthpiece of God" or being "saved by faith" are just empty words that prove nothing. Words are cheap. Real believers will live a life through which people we recognize Christ in them.
It certainly aligns with much of Catholicism.
You’re most certainly welcome.
“Then the rabbi showed up and someone asked if if he could bless the sewing machine! Then someone asked, “is there a blessing for a sewing machine?” And the rabbi replied “there is a blessing for everything.” This is where we get our mindset. That could have been an Orthodox priest for all you know, and he would have given the same answer!”
Yup! Why even our computers and fax machine and copy machine and law books and the building itself at our office get blessed, and of course our homes and automobiles. All of Creation is destined for theosis through the Incarnation! Tell me, Kosta mou, why wouldn’t there be a blessing for everything? :)
So true; its always been so.. even among the Jews, pre-Messiah.. Its the observer problem again.. Whatever mankind observes he can pick up some things differently.. Reminds of the classroom lesson where you tell one kid something who whispers it to another to another, at the end of the chain the story is totally morphed into a different story.. More so when time/history is involved..
The "observer problem" is with us upon many levels.. not just spiritually.. Even with mathematics.. the Neils Bohr and Albert Einstein dichotomy of the telescope and microscope looks at physics..They were both fairly correct as Bohr seem to observe..
Could be that there is a "telescope/microscope" element to spirituality too.. with literal/metaphorical takes on spiritual reality.. I've noticed that the "religious" can Obsess on different things.. i.e. universality, presbytery, baptism, the method, and even charisma.. The observation or obsession on a view observed can tend to group like observers together.. A self sorting dynamic that appears to be "of God"(John ch 10).. When even the "Goats"(non believers) self sort themselves into groups.. Its quite remarkable when you think of it.. A wonderful plan observed by the Ultimate Observer.. "GOD"... who has a much wider Vista to observe from..
Gives a unique "Perpective" to "Judge not unless you be Judged".. Judged by Whom?.. Judged by Yourself when you self sort yourself into SOME group because of picayune obervations of your(MY) OWN.. LoL...
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