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To: Forest Keeper
I think MAYBE you're kind of de-personalizing "reconciliation"?

It's not just, "Give laundry list; get absolved." It's "Give laundry list; be contrite; get absolved." If you are not as contrite as you can be, even if that's only a little, then you are messing with a sacrament.

It's hard, sometimes to wrap this up with the concept of "ex opere operato" because it sounds sort of like it's up to the penitent.

For someone very immature, contrition is just,"Don't be mad at me!" Maybe some people never get past that. But as we grow we hope that we get a better sense of what it means to be a sinner AND what our particular sins mean in terms of slap in the face to God, harm to others and to ourselves. Maybe as we grow in grace we see how we are like swine before whom pearls have been cast. And we just go on grunting and digging with our noses and treading anything underfoot -- and we seem to keep on doing that even when we know we're doing it. And then we may see that the pearls (metaphor shift, fasten your seat belt) are really the wounds and blood and agony of Christ, and that our grumping at our family or sulking even after we realize we're sulking lends force to the hammer that drives the nails into his hand and makes gravity's pull on his hanging body even stronger.

But all these are contrition, and one of them, or something like it, is an essential part of the sacrament.

So back to our excommunicate bad guy. If he is NOT repentant but confesses because he just likes going to church or something, he's just abused the sacrament and, in essence, indicated to himself that he isn't really interested in being absolved. He needs a miracle. Fortunately Christ has provided one, but it's still an open question whether our bogus penitent will avail himself of it.

If a Catholic penitent were to come to me and say,"How can I know if I'm contrite enough?" I'd say, "What are you, Lutheran or something? Of COURSE you're not contrite enough! don't waste your time with that question. It's the devil's question, trying to get you to focus on you and what you can do to be saved (hint: nothing!) - that way IS pride and lies madness! Focus on God, and if you fear you are not contrite, ask Him to give you mo' better contrition. He loves you and wants to help. Trust Him."

Gotta go do my vain repetitions and idolatrous worship. I hope I was clear and useful.

3,622 posted on 03/07/2008 1:03:11 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg; MarkBsnr; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; wmfights
If a Catholic penitent were to come to me and say,"How can I know if I'm contrite enough?" I'd say, ........... Of COURSE you're not contrite enough! don't waste your time with that question. It's the devil's question, trying to get you to focus on you and what you can do to be saved (hint: nothing!) - that way IS pride and lies madness! Focus on God, and if you fear you are not contrite, ask Him to give you mo' better contrition. He loves you and wants to help. Trust Him."

Outstanding, MD! Hey, you're not going to get in any trouble for this, are you? I wouldn't want to contribute to that. :) If the Vatican ever wants to take another stab at ecumenism, they should hire you as a writer. :)

Gotta go do my vain repetitions and idolatrous worship. I hope I was clear and useful.

Yes, indeed. Last night I officially gave up my last vestige of idolatry (I hope). I learned the sad news that Mary Ann from "Gilligan's Island" got popped for tootin' a Mary Jane. I was crushed. It's like my whole childhood doesn't mean anything anymore. OH the humanity! :)

3,925 posted on 03/12/2008 8:35:20 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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