Conclusion from Peru and Mexico

email from Randall Easter | 25 January 2008 | Randall Easter

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

January 25, 2008

ESV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

In recent days I have spent time in Lima and Sullana Peru and Mexico City and I have discovered that people by nature are the same. Man has a heart that is inclined to selfishness and idolatry. Sin abounds in the remotest parts of the land because the heart is desperately wicked. Thousands bow before statues of Mary and pray to her hoping for answers. I have seen these people stare hopelessly at Mary icons, Jesus icons, and a host of dead saints who will do nothing for them. I have talked with people who pray to the pope and say that they love him. I talked with one lady who said that she knew that Jesus was the Savior, but she loved the pope. Thousands bow before Santa Muerte (holy death angel) in hopes that she will do whatever they ask her. I have seen people bring money, burning cigarettes, beer, whiskey, chocolate, plants, and flowers to Santa Muerte in hopes of her answers. I have seen these people bowing on their knees on the concrete in the middle of public places to worship their idol. Millions of people come into the Basilica in Mexico City and pay their money, confess their sins, and stare hopelessly at relics in hope that their sins will be pardoned. In America countless thousands are chained to baseball games, football games, material possessions, and whatever else their heart of idols can produce to worship.

My heart has broken in these last weeks because the God of heaven is not honored as he ought to be honored. People worship the things that are created rather than worshiping the Creator. God has been gracious to all mankind and yet mankind has hardened their hearts against a loving God. God brings the rain on the just and unjust. God brings the beautiful sunrises and sunsets upon the just and unjust. God gives good gifts unto all and above all things he has given his Son that those who would believe in him would be saved. However, man has taken the good things of God and perverted them unto idols and turned their attention away from God. I get a feel for Jesus as he overlooked Jerusalem or Paul as he beseeched for God to save Israel. When you accept the reality of the truth of the glory of God is breaks your heart that people would turn away from the great and awesome God of heaven to serve lesser things. Moses was outraged by the golden calf, the prophets passionately preached against idolatry, Jesus was angered that the temple was changed in an idolatrous business, and Paul preached to the idolaters of Mars Hill by telling them of the unknown God.

I arrived back at home wondering how I should respond to all the idolatry that I have beheld in these last three weeks. I wondered how our church here in the states should respond to all of the idolatry in the world. What are the options? First, I suppose we could sit around and hope that people chose to get their life together and stop being idolaters. However, I do not know how that could ever happen apart from them hearing the truth. Second, I suppose we could spend a lifetime studying cultural issues and customs in hope that we could somehow learn to relate to the people of other countries. However, the bible is quite clear that all men are the same. Men are dead in sin, shaped in iniquity, and by nature are the enemies of God. Thirdly, we could pay other people or other agencies to go and do a work for us while we remain comfortably in the states. However, there is no way to insure that there will be doctrinal accuracy or integrity. If we only pay other people to take the gospel we will miss out on all of the benefits of being obedient to the mission of God. Lastly, we could seek where God would have us to do a lasting work and then invest our lives there for the glory of God. The gospel has the power to raise the dead in any culture and we must be willing to take the gospel wherever God would have us take it. It is for sure that our church cannot go to every country and reach every people group, so we must determine where God would have us work and seek to be obedient wherever that is.

It seems that some doors are opening in the Spanish speaking countries below us and perhaps God is beginning to reveal where we are to work. There are some options for work to be partnered with in Peru and there could be a couple of options in Mexico. The need is greater than I can express upon this paper for a biblical gospel to be proclaimed in Peru and Mexico. Oh, that God would glorify his great name in Peru and Mexico by using a small little church in a town that does not exist to proclaim his great gospel amongst a people who desperately need the truth.

I give thanks to the LORD for allowing me the privilege of going to these countries and broadening my horizons. The things that I have seen will be forever engraved upon my heart. I will long remember the pastors that I spent time with in Peru and I will never forget Adolfo who translated for me in Mexico. I will relish the time that I spent with Paul Washer and the others. When I think of church I will forever remember being on top of that mountain in Sullana at that church which had no electricity and no roof. I am convinced that heaven was looking down on that little church on top of that mountain and very few people on earth even know that it exist. Oh, God I pray that the things of this world will continue to grow dim and that God’s people will be caught up in his glorious presence.

Because of the truth: Pastor: J. Randall Easter II Timothy 2:19 "Our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases."(Ps. 115:3) "He predestined us according to the good pleasure of His will."(Eph. 1:5) Those who have been saved have been saved for His glory and they are being made holy for this is the will of God. Are you being made holy? Spurgeon says, "If your religion does not make you holy it will damn you to hell."

[Alamo-Girl]

Do you think that’s what you are doing, A-G, or is that what you are being told you are doing, either interiorly or from your co-religionists here on this thread?

"Turn the other cheek" applies to all Christians.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. - Matthew 5:38-48

If you are aware of an instance where I have failed to "turn the other cheek" please let me know.

To God be the glory!

[irishtenor]

Thank you. Beautifully put.

[hosepipe]

[ This is also contrary to Luke's obvious belief in Hades/Sheol (Luke 16:19-31), rather than paradise. Then seven chapters later he believes in paradise!? And he is telling us that God went to paradise on that day? Yet they also tell us Christ didn't even resurrect for three days. ]

Well K-man... they didnt have any christian seminary's in those days{cough}.. I have a friend that (proverbially) tears his clothes and throws dust in the air over God demanding the Israelites comit genocide with the Amalikites and other times and places in degrees.. Yet he knows nothing about the Amalikites.. and their heinous cultural practices.. And the Israelites themselves were fairly "raw' in humanity themselves..

Its easy to "accuse" the Apostles of ugh!.. dullness in becoming comfortable with a spiritual life even with the Holy Spirit as guide.. My experience and many I fellowship with have had the same kind problems with deep spiritual "truths".. (concepts).. Example; John ch 10 just opened up to me in a new deeper way recently.. than ever before.. No doubt the Apostles had some of the same problems.. You see... having the Holy Spirit as guide and listening with "both ears" can be tough.. Its wonderful that John was not Luke was not Paul was not Mark was not Matthew was not Moses etc.. We all see darkly as I beleive we are supposed to.. Each of our lives is unique in a thousand individual way.. What a plan that God would test his plan(s) though millions of different iterations..

[hosepipe]

[ Assuming for the moment that you are trying to live such a life, then it appears to me that what is influencing you is not the HS but rather a demon. ]

What a strange thing to say.. A demon?.. Alamo-girl testifies to the blood of christ with the words of her testimony.. and speaks of not loveing her "soul life" unto the death of it.. You know; like in Revelation(Philadephia).. Shes in danger of being an overcomer.. Not only that but she displays a grace and class that is worthy of it.. to most that know her..

Surely you are trying to "warn" her or expose the alleged demon..
I hope you are not accusing her, if so, thats adds to her credendials.. For thats what overcomers are told to expect.. As many of the scriptures she testifies to/with display.

[hosepipe]

[ Do you think that’s what you are doing, A-G, or is that what you are being told you are doing, either interiorly or from your co-religionists here on this thread? ]

I'm not a religionist.. Not a religious bone in my body..
Jesus came to make ALL religion obsolete, and DID..
Christianity according to Jesus is not supposed to be a religion..
And its not, its a family.. that you MUST be born into..
You are either part of the family or NOT..

[hosepipe]

Ping to 3065... sorry..

[Forest Keeper]

FK: "Of course she [Ann Coulter] steps over the line on occasion, but that usually just boosts book sales. God bless America!"

So, how do you draw the line between ethical and unethical. If lies boost the sales, long live America?

I don't put taste in the arena of ethics. When she told the gay joke about Edwards I think that crossed the line simply because it was pointless and not funny. However, since that falsehood was in no way intended to actually convince ANYONE that Edwards was gay she did not breach any ethics, imo.

It is unethical to tell a knowing lie for the purpose of convincing others of the truth of it. I happen to be on the FR Ann Coulter ping list and have been reading her columns every week for several months now. I have not yet detected a single lie. When she uses humor, there is a certain license there. So, when she makes some "outrageous" comparison, that is her opinion and cannot be considered a lie.

How is that different from businesses hiring illegal aliens out of greed and not caring what that does to America's security?

It is completely different, for the reasons above and also that the businesses are in direct violation of the law. If Annie was breaking the law, you don't think there are a million prosecutors out there who would stand in line to get her? :) ............ As far as security goes, I think Ann does a service to the country for pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals, and McCain (and Bush, whom I generally support) in their rhetoric on protecting the borders versus their actions.

I guess as long as we make a sale, the path doesn't matter. Truly revealing.

If you have sourced examples of Ann lying, or being unethical, I will be happy to try to respond to them. I certainly haven't read all of her work, but I do see a pattern from what I have read that is perfectly fine ethically and truthfully.

[Forest Keeper]

The difference between testing and temptation is in the intent of the initiator. When God subjected Jesus to hunger in the desert it was to test him in his reliance on God but when Satan tempted him in the same situation it was to sin by relying on himself to perform a miracle to satisfy his personal hunger.

Yes, that's exactly right. When God tests, it is with the EXPECTATION that the person will succeed. The man of God should turn towards Him and God will help him. When satan tempts, it is with the EXPECTATION of failure. We all know how that goes, unfortunately. But even when we are tempted, God still provides a way out:

1 Cor 10:13 : No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

If my above is right, then it looks like all men are tempted, but only the elect are tested.

[Forest Keeper]

The divinity of Jesus is introduced for the first time in the NT in John's Gospel, written at the very end of the 1st century (and as such should be placed at the very end of the bible and not after the Gospel of Luke), when the Christian doctrine had fully evolved and Christ's divinity had become a matter of faith. (emphasis added)

Kosta, from our conversations and now here, this timing problem of yours is getting way out of hand. :) From your above, it sounds like you are saying that Christians didn't believe that Christ was God until John was written 60 or 70 years after the fact. Is that right? When I brought this type of thing up before you said, in effect, that nobody else heard it so it didn't exist until it was written in the Gospels. IOW, nothing COUNTS until it was written later (an ironic view from an Orthodox perspective :). Anyway, what do you say was taught orally until the Gospels were written? If nothing counts until it is written then there was nothing to teach!! :)

[blue-duncan]

“The term “Lord” does not exclusively mean God in the Bible. The Son of God is a title given to angels and kings. It does not have the Christian meaning.

The thief on the cross could have been pulling Pascal’s wager, since he had nothing to lose.”

The centurian was a Roman soldier. What would he know of the special language of the despised Jewish faith?

Following your logic, Jesus was wrong when he said that the thief would be with him in paradise since the thief didn’t believe in him as Jesus said was a requirement for eternal life. He would not be in paradise as a thief.

Luke, as a historian, was being accurate in his description of the witnesses reporting of the events so he would mention paradise, even if he didn’t use that term.

[Kolokotronis]

“...Alamo-girl testifies to the blood of christ with the words of her testimony.. and speaks of not loveing her “soul life” unto the death of it....”

This is the standard? We all know the Evil One can quote scripture, hp.

[Mad Dawg]

EEEEEW!

[stfassisi]

Dear Sister,

Here are a few things for you to read

Christ Loves His Bride, the Church by Pope John Paul ll

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19911218en.html

A few Excerpts from the Catechism
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p2.htm

“Christ is the Head of this Body”

792 Christ “is the head of the body, the Church.”225 He is the principle of creation and redemption. Raised to the Father’s glory, “in everything he [is] preeminent,”226 especially in the Church, through whom he extends his reign over all things.

793 Christ unites us with his Passover: all his members must strive to resemble him, “until Christ be formed” in them.227 “For this reason we . . . are taken up into the mysteries of his life, . . . associated with his sufferings as the body with its head, suffering with him, that with him we may be glorified.”228

794 Christ provides for our growth: to make us grow toward him, our head,229 he provides in his Body, the Church, the gifts and assistance by which we help one another along the way of salvation.

795 Christ and his Church thus together make up the “whole Christ” (Christus totus). The Church is one with Christ. The saints are acutely aware of this unity:

The Church is the Bride of Christ

796 The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist.234 The Lord referred to himself as the “bridegroom.”235 The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride “betrothed” to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him.236 The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb.237 “Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her.”238 He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:239

This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? “The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church.”240 And the Lord himself says in the Gospel: “So they are no longer two, but one flesh.”241 They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself “bride.”242
III. THE CHURCH IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

797 “What the soul is to the human body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church.”243 “To this Spirit of Christ, as an invisible principle, is to be ascribed the fact that all the parts of the body are joined one with the other and with their exalted head; for the whole Spirit of Christ is in the head, the whole Spirit is in the body, and the whole Spirit is in each of the members.”244 The Holy Spirit makes the Church “the temple of the living God”:245

I wish you a Blessed Day!

[Quix]

I love God - Father, Son and Spirit. I have known Him for a half century. I believe Him and I trust Him. He is not a hypothesis. He is not a demon.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. – Romans 8:38-39 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. – John 10:29

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. – 2 Timothy 1:12

Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. – Philippians 4:7-8

So please understanding there is nothing you can say or do that would make me stop loving God or trusting Him - or that would separate me from Him in any way.

INDEED!

It is interesting, how, in our era, we CAN see clearer and clearer . . . how many will kill Believers . . . thinking they do God a favor.

Truly, it seems far too often . . . the flesh doesn't learn.

The letter of the law is brutality, death, horror.

The SPIRIT brings LIFE, LIBERTY, FREEDOM IN OBEDIENCE, LOVE, INTIMACY, HOPE, FAITH, JOY . . . PROVISION, SAFETY . . . ALL things good and lasting.

Which word is hard to understand? . . .

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hereby know you the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is in the world.

You are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. I John 4:1-4

THAT'S the BIBLICAL STANDARD.

NOT some lock-step, idolatrous, slavish, Pied-Piper marching to ANY magicsterical group's edicts and ponfitications.

Dear Sister in Christ . . . I have probably gone overboard in my grieving for souls in our era . . . so much mindless blindness on every hand in and out of The Church Universal.

There are not a lot of options.

And Churchianity, Churchiolatry, IDOLIZING--SUBMITTING TO--REVERING beyond honor to whom honor is due--all such are serious hazards to anyone's walk with God in any Christian group or club.

By THIS shall all men know that you are my disciples--that you have Love one for another.

NOT the long lists of things called for, expected, demanded by endless clusters of magicstericals spread all over Christendom.

This Control Freaque Doctrine of Christianity AND RELIGION was not popular with Jesus 2000 years ago and it's likely less popular with Him, now. AUTHORITY IN THE FLESH will ALWAYS demand submission, compliance, kowtowing to ITS EDICTS, ENCYCLICALS, PONTIFICATIONS . . . STATUS, ROLE, POSITION, TITLES . . . constructions on reality.

And the Truth of Christ and The Gospel and of God's Word will eternally slice straight through, straight across all such deceptive deadliness.

WHY?

Because God The Father has been calling for a FACE TO FACE RELATIONSHIP WITH EVERY INDIVIDUAL from the TENT OF MEETING on, if not before. And CHRIST RESTORED such an option and carried it higher, more accessibly to all WHO WOULD COME.

But NOOOOooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo!

There's this hoop and that hoop and then a dozen hoops in this category and a dozen hoops in that category . . . and another three dozen hoops over there . . .

And Brother Snot says then that these hoops are absolute requirements but Sister Silly disagrees. And Brother Contentious has a long list that only he believes in. Then there's the dozen or so hoops from the Vice Pontificator's office. And another dozen from the Jr Vice Pontificator's office. And another dozen from the Jr Vice Pontificator's Son-in-Law's cubicle . . .

God have mercy on us.

If any man among you seems to be religious and bridles not his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:26, 27

It has increasingly been evident to me . . . there are two great chasms on each side of the narrow path . . . one the raw hellish world of the flesh given over to every evil known to man quite overtly and obviously. And the other, rather even more devilish in deceptive ways--the white-washed tomb versions of the endless ranks of RELIGIOUS experts--particularly those elevated to god-like positions of authority and loftiness by their power mongering political peers and their own egos . . . in every cluster of Christians of any size and age to speak of.

The Biblical DADDY standard is:

HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.

But humans won't have it God's way. They refused to meet with Him at the tent of meeting out of fear. And they refuse to be accountable to Him in direct ongoing Spirit-led dialogue now--preferring to buffer themselves with hired RELIGIOUS EXPERTS . . . to do the "God-thing" for them.

Doesn't work that way. The veil has been torn asunder. And all the magicstericals in the world cannot put it back together.

We all stand daily before Daddy naked . . . whether we think so, or not. He searches the toughts and intents of our hearts far better and more meticulously than any MRI or PET scan.

No ritual; No governing magicsterical; NO !!!!TRADITIONS!!!!; No yesterday's righteousness; No customs; No mindless habits; NO IDOLATRIES; No rationalizations; . . . NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS will suffice to clothe our nakedness.

We can't buy it with money nor slavish compliance with man's enless rules and ammendments to rules.

Christ already bought the intimacy, the freedom and us . . . FOR DADDY. We are His. NO ONE ELSE'S.

We are not of Paul or Appolos . . . nor this magicsterical's nor that magicsterical's.

We are CHRIST'S ALONE; GOD'S ALONE.

OR WE ARE NOT.

And those who are truly HIS know one another by a very precious wireless connection. Sometimes it is subtle, sometimes intense. It is always online and available to the sensitive hearing hearts and spirits of authentic believers in every remotely Biblical group, denomination, club . . . as well as . . . a surprising number of 'pygmies in the jungle' without the plaguing 'benefit' of seminaries/cemetaries.

God will be doing some new things in coming months and years in our era. But they will be keyed to and based on old priorities as outlined and touched on above.

Worshipping and following Him must be in SPIRIT vs the letter of the law.

Worshipping and following HIM must be focused ON HIM ALONE.

When the confusions and convolutions multiply like flies . . . the magicstericals will, at best, be far too late with anything useful . . . and usually will be about as messed up on truth and reality as the world.

We must be able to hear in our inner man the still small voice of DADDY saying . . . THIS IS THE WAY, WALK IN IT--NOW!

Of course, for those too timid to relate to Daddy DIRECTLY in Jesus' Blood--there will always be 'buffering' magicstericals happy to take one's submission, one's coin, one's worship . . . as they knowingly or unwittingly escort one to hell.

[Quix]

What a blessing to read this excellent post of yours . . . such an affirming set of Biblical truths so consistent with the Biblical truths I just posted.

PTL!

[Quix]

Surely you are trying to “warn” her or expose the alleged demon..
I hope you are not accusing her, if so, thats adds to her credendials.. For thats what overcomers are told to expect.. As many of the scriptures she testifies to/with display.

= =

INDEED.

[Quix]

I'm not a religionist.. Not a religious bone in my body.. Jesus came to make ALL religion obsolete, and DID.. Christianity according to Jesus is not supposed to be a religion..

And its not, its a family.. that you MUST be born into.. You are either part of the family or NOT..

INDEED. Thanks, Dear Bro.

[Quix]

This is the standard? We all know the Evil One can quote scripture, hp.

---

This line of

untrue, UnBiblical, assaultive hideousness is beginning to grate on my patience.

Perhaps I should begin to pray for a speedy reaping of that sown so that the sowers shall still have a chance to learn something.

Of course satan quotes Scripture. And that relates, how?

Which part of I John 4:1-4 is hard to understand?

Oh, that’s right . . . magicstericals and !!!!TRADITION!!!! trump Scripture. /sar

[Mad Dawg]

I will now provide my, ahem, magisterial (koff, koff, gag, hack, spit, rinse out mouth, shake head, wipe brow).

My take on Dominus Iesus And on the Catechism is that Baptism (intention to baptize + water + trinitarian words) is the ordinary means of becoming a member of the Church. It is "ordinarily necessary" — but not absolutely necessary.

But there are "degrees" of membership of the church, and words like "bene" and "plene" ("well" and "fully") are often used in an attempt to characterize those degrees.

So I have no conceptual difficulty in calling all the Baptized brothers and sister, and I will try to be alert for those who were grafted in by extraordinary means. (In this connection, the word about turning the other cheek includes the protasis,"If your brother strikes you ... .")

And I would also distinguish between "heresy" and "error", even though I would immediately say that we may never see either in the "pure" form. Most heresy probably has some inadvertent "misbelief" in it and most error, I'd guess, has its willful aspect. Certainly, I am rife with error (and not just those errors which lead me to be a Papist rather than Orthodox, brother K.)

Coming at it from another POV, since Alamo-Girl says that when she speaks as the Spirit leads her she does not necessarily abide by the strictures of logic, then the conversation with her must be of a particular kind, or, at least, cannot be of a particular kind.

I mean that once someone says, "In this discourse I will ignore the law of non-contradiction," then garden variety dialectics won't apply. What must follow (I think) will be less of a dialogue and more like a "poetry slam." in which inspired utterance is met with inspired utterance.

Or, if we stipulate the inspiration of A-G's discourse, then possibly, following the Corinthian model, we could hope for an interpreter.. If not, then Regensberg goes out the window and we are left with contending mantic proclamations at which those of us whose gift (or burden) if of the more analytic kind can only gaze in respectful silence - or turn away.

"No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit." But does this mean that every subsequent utterance is similarly inspired? That can hardly be so.

We have all been encouraged, and most have succumbed, to be temporally and culturally provincial, even chauvinist. We have difficulty imagining the poverty of Europe and of the Mediterranean littoral after the dissolution of the Empire and before the rise of cities. This is one reason the ancient Churches are so misunderstood and despised. We have little understanding of being a person to whom it was not only natural but joyful to say to a human ruler, "Have mercy on us!" because we have been largely spared the chaos and slaughter and ignorance of an age when waking every morning was a blessing, when surviving a meal was an uncertain gift, when making it to nightfall without having one's home burned and one's family slaughtered by thugs calling themselves knights or by barbarians from the sea was bit at all taken for granted. And so the idea of a "saving" war-lord is almost unthinkable to us.

Consequently, in our ignorance and in this solipsistic culture it is not surprising that many cannot imagine that allegiance to the cumbersome "edifice" of Catholicism or the ancient glory of Orthodoxy would seem not so much repellent and repugnant as simply unthinkable.

Yes, there is pride in there, I think. But it is, I'd suggest, a pride of which the one so prideful can scarcely be aware, since it seems so much like "common sense."

A-G, this may seem unbearably condescending of me. I don't know what to do about that except to ask God to amend what can be amended and to redeem what cannot. But I think if you were ever to become a Catholic or to join an Orthodox body, you would shine like the sun and know a joy that would almost eclipse the joy you already show so clearly.

But, though there is this huge and important difference in our thought, I am already happy to think of you as one to whom I am blessed to be a brother.

Just remember, I am a former WASP AND a former Episcopalian, and I don't DO emotion. It isn't decent and leads to crimes and disgraces like confusing the salad fork with the dinner fork.

[Kolokotronis]

“My take on Dominus Iesus And on the Catechism is that Baptism (intention to baptize + water + trinitarian words) is the ordinary means of becoming a member of the Church. It is “ordinarily necessary” — but not absolutely necessary.”

That’s loose theology, MD. Baptism, and Rome and the East understand the sacrament differently, at least along the margins, may very well signify a dedication of a person to God, but done outside The Church (and it is a point that there is absolutely no such thing as an “invisible” Church)and though the person may thereby become a Christian, that person is not ipso facto a member of The Church. As we know, they may be members of “ecclesial bodies” or “para-ecclesial groups” as we have sometimes called them, but not The Church. If they espouse heresy, they are not members of The Church but rather, as +John Chrysostomos calls them, “enemies of God”, perhaps lead there by the Evil One, but to the extent that they see The Church, to the extent that the teachings of The Church are known to them and nevertheless they reject them for heretical teachings like, for example, forms of universalism, they are cut off from The Church and the sacraments instituted by God for our Theosis.

The tough case, and we all know that tough cases make bad law, are those where by reason of delusion brought about by demonic influences, Christians reject The Church in a true and sincere belief that they are doing God’s will instead of the Evil One’s. I suppose we have to trust to God’s mercy there, as we do for ourselves and our own. My personal opinion is that the overwhelming majority of members of those eccesial groups are sincere, but resolutely refuse to undertake the sort of “self examination” in light of the teachings of The Church which might lead to that point where a choice must be made.

Easy for me to say, I suppose.