Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54
Replacement theology has become dispensationalism's latest prophetic boogeyman. If you want to end a debate over eschatology, just charge your opponent with holding to replacement theology. What is “replacement theology,” sometimes called “supersessionism,” and why do dispensationalists accuse non-dispensationalists of holding it? Here’s a typical dispensational definition:
Replacement Theology: a theological perspective that teaches that the Jews have been rejected by God and are no longer God’s Chosen People. Those who hold to this view disavow any ethnic future for the Jewish people in connection with the biblical covenants, believing that their spiritual destiny is either to perish or become a part of the new religion that superseded Judaism (whether Christianity or Islam).1
“Replacement theology” is dispensationalism’s trump card in any debate over eschatology because it implies anti-semitism. Hal Lindsey attempted to use this card in his poorly researched and argued The Road to Holocaust.2 He wove an innovative tale implying that anyone who is not a dispensationalist carries the seeds of anti-semitism within his or her prophetic system. This would mean that every Christian prior to 1830 would have been theologically anti-semitic although not personally anti-semtic.
As Peter Leithart and I point out in The Legacy of Hatred Continues,3 it’s dispensationalists who hold to a form of replacement theology since they believe that Israel does not have any prophetic significance this side of the rapture! Prior to the rapture, in terms of dispensational logic, the Church has replaced Israel. This is unquestionably true since God’s prophetic plan for Israel has been postponed until the prophetic time clock starts ticking again at the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week which starts only after the Church is taken to heaven in the so-called rapture. Until then, God is dealing redemptively with the Church. Am I making this up? Consider the following by dispensationalist E. Schuyler English:
An intercalary4 period of history, after Christ’s death and resurrection and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, has intervened. This is the present age, the Church age. . . . During this time God has not been dealing with Israel nationally, for they have been blinded concerning God’s mercy in Christ. . . . However, God will again deal with Israel as a nation. This will be in Daniel’s seventieth week, a seven-year period yet to come.5
According to English and every other dispensationalist, the Church has replaced Israel until the rapture. The unfulfilled promises made to Israel are not fulfilled until after the Church is taken off the earth. Thomas Ice, one of dispensationalism’s rising stars, admits that the Church replaces Israel this side of the rapture: “We dispensationalists believe that the church has superseded Israel during the current church age, but God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel ‘as the institution for the administration of divine blessings to the world.’”6
Dispensationalists claim that their particular brand of eschatology is the only prophetic system that gives Israel her proper place in redemptive history. This is an odd thing to argue since two-thirds of the Jews will be slaughtered during the post-rapture tribulation, and the world will be nearly destroyed. Charles Ryrie writes in his book The Best is Yet to Come that during this post-rapture period Israel will undergo “the worst bloodbath in Jewish history.”7 The book’s title doesn’t seem to very appropriate considering that during this period of time most of the Jews will die! John Walvoord follows a similar line of argument: “Israel is destined to have a particular time of suffering which will eclipse any thing that it has known in the past. . . . [T]he people of Israel . . . are placing themselves within the vortex of this future whirlwind which will destroy the majority of those living in the land of Palestine.”8 Arnold Fruchtenbaum states that during the Great Tribulation “Israel will suffer tremendous persecution (Matthew 24:15–28; Revelation 12:1–17). As a result of this persecution of the Jewish people, two-thirds are going to be killed.”9
During the time when Israel seems to be at peace with the world, she is really under the domination of the antichrist who will turn on her at the mid-point in the seven-year period. Israel waits more than 2000 years for the promises finally to be fulfilled, and before it happens, two-thirds of them are wiped out. Those who are charged with holding a “replacement theology viewpoint” believe in no inevitable future Jewish bloodbath. In fact, we believe that the Jews will inevitably embrace Jesus as the Messiah this side of the Second Coming. The fulfillment of Zechariah 13:8 is a past event. It may have had its fulfillment in the events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Contrary to dispensationalism’s interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, Jesus' disciples warned the Jewish nation for nearly forty years about the impending judgment (Matt. 3:7; 21:42–46; 22:1–14; 24:15–22). Those who believed Jesus’ words of warning were delivered “from the wrath to come” (1 Thess. 1:10). Those who continued to reject Jesus as the promised Messiah, even though they had been warned for a generation (Matt. 24:34), “wrath has come upon them to the utmost” (1 Thess. 2:16; cf. 1 Thess. 5:1–11; 2 Pet. 3:10–13).
Before critics of replacement theology throw stones, they need to take a look at their own prophetic system and see its many lapses in theology and logic.
Read Part Two of this article...
2. Hal Lindsey, The Road to Holocaust (New York: Bantam Books, 1989). The address for Bantam Books is 666 Fifth Avenue, New York, New York.
3. Gary DeMar and Peter J. Leithart, The Legacy of Hatred Continues: A Response to Hal Lindsey’s The Road to Holocaust (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 1989).
4. Inserted into the calendar.
5. E. Schuyler English, A Companion to the New Scofield Reference Bible (New York: Oxford University Press, 1972), 135.
6. Thomas Ice, “The Israel of God,” The Thomas Ice Collection: www.raptureready.com/featured/TheIsraelOfGod.html#_edn3
7. Charles C. Ryrie, The Best is Yet to Come (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1981), 86.
8. John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1962), 107, 113. Emphasis added.
9. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, “The Little Apocalypse of Zechariah,” The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack, eds. Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 2003), 262.
No, I am using the comparsion verse that you gave me, Luke 11:22, which doesn't use the word 'bind' but 'overcome'-explaining what is meant by 'bound' in the Gospel accounts.
Now, Christ came preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God, so Satan was powerless to fight against it while it was on Earth in the person of Christ.
However, since Christ was rejected as the Jewish Messiah, the Kingdom of Heaven was put on 'hold' while the Kingdom of God is spread through individuals of the Church.
The Satanic deception continues until Satan is bound and put into the abyss and then the Kingdom of Heaven is established with Christ ruling as the Son of David from Jerusalem (Ps.89).
Amen.
No one is changing anyone's words.
Christ was speaking prophecy and used 'this' to refer to the group He was speaking about, the generation that would have to flee when the anti-Christ came into the Temple.
It wasn't Christians He was speaking about since Christians would not be concerned about fleeing on the Sabbath!
Topcat, you have us all thoroughly confused here by your exegesis. If Satan [the strong man] was not bound until sometime after the Book of Revelation was written, then just how was it possible for his house to be plundered by all those saints in the early church????
It is referring to the Jewish People as a whole.
See how the word generation is used for the church in 1Pe.2:9,
but ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people;
Thus, the Lord was promising the Jewish people (this generation) would not pass, it would survive, as a people, to see these events fulfilled.
I don’t think that all of you are confused, just the ones with a hard-core futurist mindset or poor reading skills.
If Satan [the strong man] was not bound until sometime after the Book of Revelation was written, then just how was it possible for his house to be plundered by all those saints in the early church????
I’m not sure where you got this timing from in any of my comments. I’ll let you point it out so I can help correct your misunderstanding.
THANKS!
THANKS, THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS, DEAR HEART.
Sometimes the sense that one has utterly and completely fallen down Alice’s abbit hole in these threads is dishearteningly more than a little bit overwhelming. Not in an ultimate sense but in a
. . .
jaw dropping, super stunned,
ITTM INCREDULOUS TO THE MAX
sense.
Refreshing reality testing from Holy Spirit’s wisdom through you, is most welcome.
I think folks may imagine my heart and mind more than a little incorrectly in such matters.
I’ve noted that my passion arises mostly out of concern and at times outrage that folks likely end up needlessl missing out on Christ because of such a Bible mangling theology. Missing HEAVEN
IS
A BIG
DEAL.
An ETERNALLY BIG DEAL.
I don’t care to get into the predestination issues and I’m aware that THERE IS AT LEAST A MEASURE of God saving ‘such as should be saved.’
Nevertheless, whether blotted out fromthe Book of Life or missing out on a decision FOR CHRIST—and there ARE Scriptures supporting both happening BY HUMAN CHOICE . . . it’s a frightful prospect.
I want to be found to have been counted on the side of those who did all they knew to do to prevent such an occurrance by any souls within my slightest influence.
############
Then there’s the issue which I THINK; I BELIEVE but have NO proof for beyond my 35+ years counseling experience as a PhD in clinical psychology . . . the passions on the other side seem more than a little overblown to just have arisen “merely” out of “Scripture explaining Scripture.”
Not trying to violate the ascribing motives rule and I don’t know how to talk about such kosherly. But I think it is an is an important issue.
I felt some years ago that Holy Spirit dropped into my being that virtually all denominational splits occurred NOT because INITIALLY of theological differences but BECAUSE OF RELATIONSHIP HURTS, PIQUES, PRIDE, TURF issues. Then the “RIGHTEOUS” indignation set in and another group was off and running.
God will have worked even all such to HIS GOOD. But it’s a dreadful indictment, if that perception is really true.
In terms of this thread and these issues . . . I really am abidingly incredulous. I thought I’d seen it all in that many years of counseling and working amongst a diversity of Christian groups.
But when Side B says WHITE = BLACK . . . and one hauls out a long list of Scriptures proving that WHITE = WHITE . PLUS a long line of historical documentation PLUS a long line of CURRENT EVENTS . . . .
PROVING that WHITE IS WHITE . . .
and side B still even imagines that WHITE = BLACK . . .
WHAT IS ONE TO THINK?
WHAT IS ONE TO FEEL?
WHAT WORDS ARE LEFT?
One’s jaw can only make so many holes in the floor before it bruises significantly.
Thankfully, The Lord created me with and built into me an above average tenacity.
The lurkers will still be cared for.
But it’s more than sad.
In these OBVIOUS END TIMES . . . . anyway.
LUB,
BLPH,
Well then just exactly when was the strong man bound???
“If Satan [the strong man] was not bound until sometime after the Book of Revelation was written, then just how was it possible for his house to be plundered by all those”
Satan has always been bound in the sense that he could do nothing without a warrant from God. He could not initiate anything on his own. That is the tantalizing aspect of the war on the saints; he can only do what God allows.
Job 1:12, “And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.”
Job 2:6, “And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.”
Luk 22:31-32, “And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not:...”
Rev 13:4-8, “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Jhn 14:30, “Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.”
Jhn 16:11, “Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.”
Eph 2:2, “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:”
1 Pet. 5:8, “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”
“I’m incredulous . . . flabbergasted. I never thought I’d see the day when anyone claiming honestly to be any kind of Christian would imagine to say such a thing.”
I dont think this kind of language is necessary in our discourse. I have no doubt that topcat, Dr. Eckleburg, Lord_Calvinus and the others are Christians who dearly love the Lord. They are also wonderful defenders of the faith.
Just because we disagree on eschatology does not mean we should resort to name calling. All that we should do and say should be sprinkled with love. Christ says in John 12:35 - “By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
I see these conversations as excellent opportunities to sharpen each other, to search the Scriptures and to gain a better understanding of God’s Word. I have a feeling that both sides have things wrong in this debate, and that we will be quite surprised when it all plays out.
#####################
FIERCENESS is NOT EQUAL TO lack of Love.
While I mostly agree with you above . . .
1. I didn’t call anyone any dastardly name above. Didn’t call anyone a name at all.
2. I noted a bit of how shocked I was that Christians by any stretch of the term, could imagine such a thing.
3. WHAT LANGUAGE WOULD YOU HAVE ME USE TO REGISTER THAT LEVEL OF SHOCK AND INCREDULITY? Are you saying that folks ought to be able to pontificate
for example
saying that . . . Christ had 3 noses, 4 arms, 3 wives, 4 homosexual lovers and played chess with satan nightly . . .
and we are supposed to go . . .
“yeah, well, whatever . . . “
????
At some point
OUTRAGE = LOVE.
It may also be worth noting again that this thread was started with an early post by the OP stating bluntly that folks on my side
had Multiple Personality Disorder and schizophrenia
for believing as we do.
Not sure therefore what . . . but I feel no conviction in my spirit for crying OUTRAGEOUS about
THE PERSPECTIVE.
i work very, very, very hard at avoiding attacking persons and personhood.
Christ was speaking to those who believed in Him. That’s the definition of “Christian.”
When reading the Bible, it’s important to keep in mind whom Jesus was speaking to and whom the letters (such as Revelation, which was a letter) were addressed to. For example, it would be a bit misleading on John’s part to write that God “will keep ‘you’ from the hour” if he didn’t really mean the people he was writing to.
If you were a persecuted Christian and received a letter containing words of comfort such as the above, would you really think that comfort was meant for someone else in another century?
That’s fine, but you still need to deal with the fact that both Matthew and Revelation use the same Greek word. You also need to explain any significance to Luke’s use of a different word. Was Luke trying to assert something different from Matthew by his choice of words?
Now, Christ came preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God, so Satan was powerless to fight against it while it was on Earth in the person of Christ.
OK, I guess. Let’s see where this is going.
However, since Christ was rejected as the Jewish Messiah, the Kingdom of Heaven was put on 'hold' while the Kingdom of God is spread through individuals of the Church.
Do you have any Scripture to back up that theory? Actually the fact that many thousands of Jews, including Peter and Paul, received Christ as their Messiah discredits that assertion. Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Just ask all those believing Jews. The fact that some Jews were hardened and that many still await the regrafting into spiritual Israel does not change that fact.
The Satanic deception continues until Satan is bound and put into the abyss and then the Kingdom of Heaven is established with Christ ruling as the Son of David from Jerusalem (Ps.89).
And now we are back to the beginning. If you are mistaken in one of your steps, which you appear to be, then you will never arrive at the correct conclusion.
Rev. 20 makes it clear that the reason for Satan’s binding as to do with his ability to deceive the nations ( ethnos, gentiles). Christ overcame Satan’s ability to keep the good news from being preaching in all the nations of the world. As Jesus told His disciples, "all authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth". He then gives them their marching orders, "go and make disciples of all nations (same word, ethnos)". The disciples could only take those words as indicating that they would have success in their task because the ethnos were under the authority of Christ, not Satan. The reason being that Satan was bound from deceiving the nations any longer.
I take if from your (non)response that I really didn’t say what you thought I said.
Well then just exactly when was the strong man bound???
I'm not trying to be evasive or obtuse, but what did Jesus say in Matthew 12 to His disciples? I’m trying to help you figure this out for yourself. By arriving at the correct conclusion you can take ownership and feel a sense of victory over this carnal theology.
I see these conversations as excellent opportunities to sharpen each other, to search the Scriptures and to gain a better understanding of God's Word.
Thanks for your comments.
True. And it would make Jesus a bit of a hypocrite with a touch of masochist to suggest to the first century readers that all these things will take place "shortly" when He really knew they were postponed for thousands of years in the future and had nothing to do with them at all, but rather involved center stage this odd bunch known in some circles as the one hundred and forty-four thousand Jewish evangelists.
“but what did Jesus say in Matthew 12 to His disciples?”
Is the “binding” a once and for all thing or on a case by case basis?
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting
Mar 9:29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
GOD OFTEN—IN CHRIST AND IN THE OT
STATED THINGS
FOR THEN
AND
AS IN
A N D
LATER . . .
I call that sort of thing
on of the “BOTH/AND’s OF GOD.”
Sorry this is such a difficult concept for the Replacementarian perspective to wrap it’s convolutions around . . . but I didn’t set the universe up.
And I happen to believe God knows what He’s doing . . .
even hiding some things in plain sight.
But the criteria doesn't change. You are either washed by the blood of Jesus or not.
David was not a Christian, Abraham wasn't, Moses wasn't, Noah wasn't, Abel wasn't, they were Jews and Gentiles.
But they lived by faith.
Hebrews 11:39-40 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
In dispensationalism is there a belief that those of the old testament period did not have to have Faith in the coming Messiah to be saved?
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