Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54
He teaches that He is casting out devils by the power of God and not of Beelzebub, as some were claiming He was doing (Mk.3:22-30)
What do you think it means?
"I don't need no stinkin' redemption."
Besides, I like to see you squirm with your naked emperor down in the kingdom of "we don’t do no stinkin’ exegesis".
Where does He tell them that it will happen? All you have is an argument from silence, and not a very good one.
I have an angel telling the Apostles that same Christ they saw ascending is going to return the same way (Acts.1:11).
I have Paul saying that the Jew is going to return to favor again (Rom.11)
Besides, you cannot prove that present secular Israel is the exact fulfillment of any of your futurist fantasies. It may disappear tomorrow in a puff of nuclear smoke.
I don't have to prove that it is, the fact that it even exists shows that prophecy is getting ready to be fulfilled.
And you keep waiting for that nuke to wipe it out, the Arabs have tried and tried to get rid of it, like the burning bush, it will not be destroyed.
[ Just how much of the Bible do you guys throw out? ]
That's funny. Just think of it as we don’t happen read it with Mr. Scofield’s glasses.
Well, you must have some kind of glasses on, because whenever a clear future prophecy comes up you just flip it aside and say that it will not happen or that it means something else.
This is the long chain theory!
Yeh -- a minimum security bottomless pit with internet access and cell phone service.
He teaches that He is casting out devils by the power of God and not of Beelzebub, as some were claiming He was doing (Mk.3:22-30)
What do you think it means?
OK, and what else?
Let’s look again at the section to get the context and answer all the questions (At the risk of awakening Rapmaster Q with my color scheme):
"Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.
What is Jesus teaching in each of the color coded phrases? How is Jesus able to cast out demons? What do the disciples know when they see demons being cast out? Who does the "strong man" represent? What do the goods represent? Compare with Luke 11:20-22.
There are a lot of things that you would probably like to see, like that Caiaphas claim of yours permanently removed from this thread -- but it won't happen.
I see your problem, reading too much into Romans 11. It says nothing about the national state of Israel in that passage.
I don't have to prove that it is, the fact that it even exists shows that prophecy is getting ready to be fulfilled.
That's only proof by assertion. It is illogical to say that just because this entity exists that the secular nations call "Israel" is the equivalent to saying God calls it "Israel" according to His Word.
clear future prophecy
That’s an oxymoron. Sorry, but there hasn’t been much clarity on prophecy from your camp.
The dispies would like to think that historical speculation is equivalent to the Word of God. And that digging up bones and may or may not belong to such and such a person and that he may or may not have been so and so years is the same as doing the hard work of exegeting the Bible. But it is not. It’s actually theological laziness. Like relying on the Jerusalem Times for your prophecy theories.
Yes, that’s what’s been going on for the last 2000 year since He ascended into heaven to the throne of David from which He has been reigning.
And it isn't complete until after the Millennial reign, where a final rebellion breaks out and God the Father wipes it out (Rev.20:9).
Now, Christ is sitting at the Father's right hand, He is not reigning over anything except His own Church.
[ That reign happens during the Millennial reign (see Ps.2)]
Wrong. Read the NT. It says that He is reigning (cf, Eph. 1:10 and Heb. 8:1). Paul is quoting from Psalms as more proof that Jesus is reigning as the promised Messiah of Palm 2. Jesus Himself said that "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth" right now. Not in some futurist fantasy millennium.
Yes, all authority has been given to him on heaven and earth, but he is not using that authority now.
Just like David was made King in 1Sam.16 but did not actually rule to much later.
Christ is the legal ruler of the Earth,(De jure) but not the actual ruler,(De facto) Satan is still the ruler right now (2Cor.4)
[ Then, the last enemy destroyed is death, which happens at the Great White Throne Judgement (Rev.20) ]
Correct. That happens at "the end" just after our resurrection. "The end" means "the end", not the start of yet another thousand years.
I said that death ends at the Great White Throne Judgement after the Millennial reign.
Life does continue into the eternal state, but death won't. (Rev.21-22)
[ Now, as for 'flesh and blood inheriting the Kingdom of God' you know that the Kingdom of God and Heaven are two different Kingdoms! ]
Dispensational baloney.
No, just fact.
As shown by Paul's definition in Rom.14.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Matt. 19)
No, they are both true.
The Kingdom of Heaven is never used in any other Gospel but Matthew.
It always refers to a literal, physical, millennial kingdom as promised by the prophets and waited for by the Apostles (I guess they were deceived by the Scofield notes)
The phrases are used interchangeably in the Bible, as demonstrated in this one passage. Most thinking dispensationalists repudiate this Scofieldian nonsense.
The phrases are not used interchangeably, although the Kingdoms do overlap.
How can an unsaved man enter into the Kingdom of God, which is a spiritual kingdom?
Yet, in Matthew 13:47, the Kingdom of Heaven has good and bad fish in it and at the end of the world, the bad fish are thrown out.
No unsaved man ever enters into the Kingdom of God, unless you think that someone can lose their salvation?
[ The Kingdom of God is a spiritual Kingdom which flesh and blood cannot inherit (Rom.14:17). The Kingdom of Heaven is a literal, physical kingdom, which is the Kingdom the Apostles were looking for. ]
More baloney of the same noxious sort.
No, more pure sweet smelling truth
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. (If you are a futurist insert 1007 years right here) 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor. 15)
Yes, that is correct.
The Church and OT believers receive their resurrection bodies before the Millennium and reign with Christ (if they suffer with him 2Ti.2:12)
I see your problem, reading too much into Romans 11. It says nothing about the national state of Israel in that passage.
No, actually I am just reading exactly what Paul wrote.
He said that the Jews will receive the promises given to them (Rom.11-25-29)
[ I don't have to prove that it is, the fact that it even exists shows that prophecy is getting ready to be fulfilled. ]
That's only proof by assertion. It is illogical to say that just because this entity exists that the secular nations call "Israel" is the equivalent to saying God calls it "Israel" according to His Word.
It is?
LOL!
It is illogical to state that what has happened, the reemergence of a Jewish state and them retaking Jerusalem have nothing to do with prophecy.
What other people in human history have been removed from their homeland, dispersed, persecuted and then returned to that same homeland 2,000 years later?
Just as it was prophesied in Isa.11:11, that there would be two dispersions, and the Lord would bring back the Jews a second time, which this present Israel is.
The Babylonian captivity was the first return, and the return in 1948 was the second.
[ clear future prophecy ]
That’s an oxymoron. Sorry, but there hasn’t been much clarity on prophecy from your camp.
Ofcourse there has been, you just don't want to believe it.
Just like the pharisess didn't want to believe that Christ was the Messiah.
So, what about the wolf lying down with the lamb, when does that all happen?
So just when was the strong man bound??? in 30 AD??? But John's Revelation was not written until 96 AD and the binding of Satan was still yet future at that time. So was there no plundering going on between 30 and 96 AD????
Can you exegeters help us here??? Your exegeting has us so confused. Can you just tell us straight out when Satan was bound?
Israel has 50% of the world's Jewish population. But that's what ya get from Topcat and those who believe Edom has superceeded Jacob. Of course when a supercessionist believes they are Jacob, what can ya do. And of course Edom is now spritual and the former sons and daughers of Jacob secular. Oh the proud.
I am trying to figure out what problem you have with that verse.
[ He teaches that He is casting out devils by the power of God and not of Beelzebub, as some were claiming He was doing (Mk.3:22-30) What do you think it means? ]
OK, and what else? Let’s look again at the section to get the context and answer all the questions (At the risk of awakening Rapmaster Q with my color scheme): "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. What is Jesus teaching in each of the color coded phrases? How is Jesus able to cast out demons? What do the disciples know when they see demons being cast out? Who does the "strong man" represent? What do the goods represent? Compare with Luke 11:20-22.
Nothing that has to do with Amillennial or Postmillennial theology that is for sure!
Jesus is able to cast out demons by the power of the Holy Ghost, the disciples know that the Kingdom of God was present with them.
The strong man is Satan who is overcome by one stronger them him (Christ) and loses his armour and his spoils.
Now, that doesn't mean that Satan is bound since he is the God of this world and roams about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (2Cor.4, 1Pe.5:8)
Satan is bound in the future, at the 2nd coming of Christ, (Rev.19).
Christ did defeat Satan and took his captives (saved OT saints) from hell (Abraham's bosom).
However, Satan is still allowed to rule this world and still has access to heaven itself and that doesn't change until Rev.12.
Then Satan returns to the earth where he indwells the anti-Christ and sits in the Temple in Jerusalem (Rev.13, 2Thess.2) and when Christ returns Satan is bound for a 1,000 years, placed into the abyess and after a thousand years released to start another rebellion on earth which is put down by God the Father (Rev.20).
You can find all of this in the Scofield notes.
Amen.
Rom.11:25!
“It says “to” not “into” — different words different meanings.”
Only to dispensationalists, who change “near” to mean “2,000 years from now,” “this generation” to mean “that generation,” “you” to mean “they,” and “horses” and “bows and arrows” to mean “jets” and “bombs.”
To everybody else, “to” and “into” makes no difference when it’s still referring to the same place.
When He left however, Christ told them that things were going to be different.
But said unto them, but now he that hath a purse let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.(Lk.22:36)
So, Satan isn't bound today, he is he god of this world, who still deceives it.
Oh my gosh!!!Are you for real???? The difference between going "to" a burning building and going "into" a burning building is the difference between life and death.
And in this case its the difference between the truth and a lie --
That rascal!
“No, Jesus wasn’t speaking to ‘us’ He was speaking to the generation that would see the abomination of desolation set up, the Tribulation generation.”
If Jesus meant a generation other than the one He was speaking to, He would have said “they,” not “you.” He would have said “that generation,” not “this generation.”
Nobody speaks that way; so why change the meanings of Christ’s words?
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