Posted on 09/24/2007 3:11:29 PM PDT by presidio9
A new article by an Italian medical professor speculates the death of Pope John Paul the Second was caused by euthanasia. According to "TIME" magazine, an intensive care specialist says the Pope's death would be considered euthanasia by standards set by the Catholic Church. The doctor bases her conclusion on press reports and a book written by the Pope's physician. She says the decision not to insert a feeding tube until just a few days before his death accelerated the death of the ailing pontiff. Plus, the doctor believes the Pope himself made the decision not to insert the tube after consulting with medical professionals. He had been hospitalized twice before his 2005 death. Catholics are told to take any effort to prolong life. The article appears in an Italian magazine critical of the church's stance on medical ethics. The doctor says she decided to revisit the Pope's death after a recent ruling by the Catholic Church on euthanasia.
In my Grandmothers situation jamming a feeding tube in her would have been extreme and taking heroic efforts. At 100 years old this would not be right ... in the situation of Terri, yes a feeding tube is proper. She wasn’t winding down and no terminal illness. There was no reason to murder her. None.
“The fact that God can, and does, do what He wants is no guide for us humans when it comes to making decisions, because He reveals nothing to us about particular situations. We have only the data of reason and the data of Revelation to enlighten us. It is undoubtedly true that God takes people when He wants. But we have no knowledge of when that is until it happens, and so, obviously, that particular datum cannot possibly figure in the decision-making process.”
We are under an obligation to support life but ultimately whether we put a feeding tube in someone or not,we aren’t making the final call. We don’t know His mind so we just have to do the best we can but murder as in Terri’s situation was wrong.
I wouldn’t second-guess your grandmother’s decision, since she would know how distressful the procedure would have been. And a person’s age is not irrelevant.
The bible itself is evidence of that. Jesus turned to PETER, not to some scripture, and said YOU ARE THE ROCK ON WHICH I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH. Peter was the first pope.
The Bible is useless as a basis for a religion because it is open to interpretation a billion different ways. That's why there are 30k different prot denominations right now.
Yeah, I'll remember to skip calls from your house the next time my volunteer EMT shift comes up.
"No, we can stay in for this one boys. Apparently God has decided it is her time."
Assinine.
Great, cause they weren't. The pope didn't starve to death.
Wow, it's useless? And oh please, not that old canard about the denominations again! We have only 30K now? That means we successfully consolidated 3,000 denominations in the last two weeks alone!
Alex, didn’t the early church refuted all heresies with written scripture? Weren’t the the early creeds based on the bible? The basis of the early church (Christianity) was scripture it seems.
Yes, the Catholic Church has traditions that others may not like, or agree with, but those don't detract from the fact that God is our Father, Jesus is His Son, and both God and Man, and that the Holy Spirit is the Love of God which He sends, to dwell within us, keeping us ever mindful of that Love. Just as Peter was told 'feed my flock', the Holy Spirit guides the Church to choose a Pope who will continue that work, and guide God's people to lives of faithfulness and to salvation.
This is the beauty of the Church; there is that stability, guided by the Holy Spirit, and it is something to which Catholics can always look, for comfort in an ever changing world, and know that God is there.
Fascinating how the discussion slurps over the side of the Pope May have been Euthanized article into the gutter of how Catholics are not Bible based or Christian or whatever ludicrous claim that can be extracted from the depths of one’s colon.
Appreciate your vigilence, sir.
Maybe it fell out of the sky like manna in the desert and certain fertile minds scooped it up like a football and ran with it.
Maybe the entire first millennium and a half are complete fabrications and only with the establishment of the selected elite did the Word of God truly come forth.
Maybe tinfoil will keep those harmful rays from penetrating porous crania and at least quiet the voices, as well.
There obviously cannot be an age cutoff point. Each case, like each human before God, must be adjudicated on its own merits.
That 25 year old with a fatal disease? What of it? MS? MD? MLS? These are long term diseases. The Pope had long term illnesses and was a beacon to the world in how to live with progressing terminal illnesses. Maybe the illnesses are some of God’s testing for us.
I think that it’s more about how you journey through life. When God calls one home, I doubt that He gets too many busy signals, but the methodology of His calls may vary from person to person. Both of my parents died of cancer and in each case, they knew when they were going to die before it happened and they accepted it and prepared to meet God. My grandfather knew it about a week before it happened to him.
They didn’t bring it on; it was there and it was going to happen. A far cry from killing one’s self for whatever motivation.
It wasn’t suicide and yes, you don't know her and how strong her faith was in God. Her body was simply winding DOWN. She used to feverishly knit. She couldn’t get her fingers to do it and finally couldn’t remember how to do it. Her top teeth were false. Her bottom teeth were her own. The bottom row was literally falling out, one by one. We’d ask her, where were they - she had no idea. We were just thankful she didn’t choke on them. We were dreading when the dentist would come to do an impression ... for new teeth. Money was never an issue.
Her legs had circulation problems and she had a sore that would heal - the body’s immune system was not really working anymore ... amputation was being considered by doctors because of the blackness. There was no way in the world we’d have her limb or limbs cut off - nor did she want that.
No, AGE is RELEVENT. There is a sad time when the body is simply worn out. You can’t keep propping a person up with chemicals and other things - you have to face reality.
She didn’t fear dying. She loved life. She also knew that her time was coming. She had no problem with that. She accepted reality. She often felt bad when a younger relative died of a disease ... she often said "I would have gladly given my life in exchange for him - he was young and had his life in front of him ... I’ve have a wonderful life ... ."
There comes a point where you let GOD handle it as He did. Thankfully ALL the doctors were wrong about inserting a feeding tube. She was of sound mind and REFUSED - she told them point blank, she’d try to drink liquids and move on to solids but left the outcome up to GOD. Surprisingly she did just that! She survived double lung pneumonia - at AGE 100. It wasn’t her time. Four months shy of turning 101 she had heart failure. No diseases. Just a gentle shutting down of the body - a gentle ending.
We knew what was happening. There are different changes that begin to happen with the body ... breathing is lower ... the person shows agitation but when all the family came - she was calm and relaxed. She KNEW what was happening. When everyone was there, she told us she loved us all and would see all of us soon. Then she let go as she was sung into heaven. It was bitter sweet. It was the perfect ending for a Godly woman.
I strongly disagree on going to “heroic” efforts under circumstances like this - AGE is RELEVENT! This was not euthanasia or suicide - it was simply accepting God's will and recognizing the reality that our bodies will NOT last forever on this earth.
A heart transplant at age 100 would have been ridiculous. She probably would NOT have survived the operation or any operation at that point. Yes, AGE DOES MATTER! Her body was literally shutting down ... it is MOST UNWISE to FIGHT GOD taking a loved one home to heaven.
It was her time to join Him. I can't speak on other situations with other people ... I know that this was a correct decision. She left our family surrounded with people who love her. We miss her and we will always love her. We all look forward to be reunited again for eternity - as she stated, "death is just a temporary separation" - she is right!
I heard an interesting comment by Sproul on this. The very first pronounciation by Peter after our Lord Jesus said this was:
If you are very, very ill, and elderly, the health care personnel will automatically shove a feeding tube down your throat and fill you with Ensure or some other godawful concoction. Because you will not “get better” without nutrition. If you refuse, they will say you are crazy and try to give you antipsychotics. Our hospitals today are fearful of lawsuits.
So you have to make a choice at that time.
I was agreeing with you wholeheartedly. I said “Age is not irrelevant.”
When a person has a multitude of irreversible, worsening ailments, and is 100 years old, there certainly is a time to throw in the towel. Age and multiple infirmities certainly do figure in calculating what procedures are obligatory, or reasonable though optional, or unreasonable.
Mat 16:22-23 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You." But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."
So much for the Pope being infallible. ;O)
lol. So some rocks are actually "stumbling blocks."
Fascinating. 8~)
This was discussed on OReilly with Father Johnathan who resides in Rome,this doctor has never seen the Pope never discussed his medical condition with the Popes doctor. The article is just another smack at the church. And the comment on church doctrine about dying was wrong as well.
Wait, let me get this straight: Peter and Satan were actually the same PERSON? Far out.
That's really freaky that God allowed a perversion to persist as the only record of his teachings four fourteen hundred years. Tell us more.
Haven't we Protestants been telling you this about the Pope for 500 years? Don't you read the Chick tracks? I'm glad you're catching on. ;O)
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