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Posted on 09/24/2007 8:16:13 AM PDT by colorcountry
Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today. "I thought if he could go public, so can I," said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him "thousands of reasons the church can't be what it claims to be."
Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn's excommunication announced to the wards at men's priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare. They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church...................
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
BTW, how many other names do you post under at FR?
MHG, I believe the Bible is the word of God it is what lead me the Spirit of the Lord that I felt when reading the Bible was the same spirit that witness to me about the Book of Mormon!
It was the Holy Spirit of Love and Joy which only of the Godhead God can impart!
Well; since it was claimed to not be 'translated correctly', you guys now have the JST, which claims to 'correct' and re-install many of the 'precious things' that were removed by evil men.
Of course, it's not finished yet.
Who knows; with diligent study and advancement, perhaps YOU will be the one chosen of GOD to complete this work, which could then be known as the JS/2P4MT.
Unlike the Bible that got NO 'test' from JS!
Did the Bible predict the coming of the BoM?
Only one name; mostly one alter-ego.
"As long as it's translated correctly."
You guys can NOT get around THIS statement!
You can see from these statements that Joseph Smith must have been inspired—at least once in his life -- when he said, "We believe the Bible contains the word of God in so far as it is correctly translated." So we find the world -- the ecclesiastical world -- continues to get out new translations, which is but a compliment to the far-reaching wisdom of the prophet in that early day. Therefore we, who are supposed to be a peculiar people, have what many people might designate a "peculiar" Bible.
The Inspired Version Is the Church's Official Version. What is its relationship to the Church and how is it treated by us? In Section 42:15 of the Doctrine and Covenants the Lord said: "My Scriptures shall be given as I have appointed"; and then when received in full, "I give unto you a commandment, that then ye shall teach them unto all men; for they shall be taught unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people."
(From --> http://www.centerplace.org/library/tracts/iv_IsraelASmith.htm )
I believe the Bible to be true, except for these verses:
KJV Galatians 1:6-9
6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
If these were hard to understand, here is a more modern version ---
6. I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
7. which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
9. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
The Inspired Version Restored Scriptural Truths. The Book of Mormon is another so-called spiritual "prop" on this point. In I Nephi 3:168-170, we find these statements: "Behold, [speaking of a church which was to be in existence] they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious.... And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord."
I agree, his claim doesn’t pass the smell test at all. I strongly suspect this is just a cover story and the real reason he was kicked out was different.
Although it is rare to publicly announce someone’s excommunication like that, I’ve seen it done before in cases where the person is going around to other members trying ot destroy their faith. Any well run church would point out a wolf in sheep’s clothing like that, but of course all the other wolves will howl about it.
Is that not the sad truth
I would appreciate it you would not post those long links to me I miss my little replies and you are endless with these long post, other do it once in a while but you are like a popcorn machine!
I have vision trouble an it hard to screen through your stuff!
I have 20/20 in one eye but that is hinded by Blepharitis is a common inflammation of the eyelids. ... symptoms as eye irritation, burning, tearing, foreign body sensation, crusty debris.
The other one I am legally blind in it but I should get the catarack removed on the 10th if my medical exam is good!
Thank you
How does someone “destroy” someone elses faith.
With the truth perhaps?
It didn’t shake mind and it did seem to shake his wife faith either!
It will shake those who did not nuture their faith by reading scriptures often.
Even in a MS church many will become lacks and be more worldly than if they have feasted often on the Word!
How does Satan destroy faith in Christ? Not with truth, that is for sure.
There are former nuns and former clergy (both Catholics and Protestants) among our members, just as there are former Mormons in other churches. Seeing as every religion has had some members who lost faith in it, people who see something like this as some kind of evidence about the truthfulness of the church only show their own bias.
How does Satan destroy faith in Christ? Not with truth, that is for sure.
There are former nuns and former clergy (both Catholics and Protestants) among our members, just as there are former Mormons in other churches. Seeing as every religion has had some members who lost faith in it, people who see something like this as some kind of evidence about the truthfulness of the church only show their own bias.
Your Church should be secure enough in its own belief and faith, that the investigating of history, or the opinion of others shouldn’t interfere.
Excommunication is a way of branding someone as ‘sinful,’ untrustworthy, or dishonest. It is cultic. If that is what Catholics do, then so be it. I would not agree with them either.
BTW, my Church cannot excommunicate someone, and it never does. When an organization is fearful of investigation, then I think that organization has a problem. Of course, you disagree with me...I am an apostate.
Satan knows the Bible better than any Mormon has or ever will. When the BM was composed, it lifted heavily from the Bible, including in the ‘translation by Smith’ many words that have opposite menaings in SMith’s day from what they had in the day the King James version of the Bible was translated, showing quite openly that the person plagarizing from the Bible was somewhat ignorant of actual meanings and truth contained in the Bible. If you ever have the time to do it, write to me and I’ll give you a few of the key words to search in the BM that are opposite what the Smith era meaning was ... either Smith was receiving faulty transmissions from his source or the God of Heaven wants to play tricks on men. [HINT: do a word study on the word ‘let’ as found in Thess of the Bible, then look the word up for where it is found/used in the BM.]
BooHoo...
Me thinks the pot is being confused with the kettle.
I failed to see ANY 'to me' out there.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Main article: Disciplinary council
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (”LDS Church”; see also Mormon) practices excommunication (as well as the lesser sanctions of private counsel and caution, informal probation, formal probation, and disfellowshipment) as penalties for those who commit serious sins.
According to the Church Handbook of Instructions, The purposes of Church discipline are (1) to save the souls of transgressors, (2) to protect the innocent, and (3) to safeguard the purity, integrity, and good name of the Church. Excommunication is generally reserved for what are seen as the most serious sins, including committing serious crimes; committing adultery, polygamy, or homosexual conduct; apostasy, teaching false doctrines, or openly criticizing LDS leaders. In most cases, excommunication is a last resort, used only after repeated warnings. A recent (2006) revision to the Church Handbook of Instructions states that joining another church is also an excommunicable offense, however merely attending another church does not constitute “apostasy”.
As a lesser penalty, Latter-day Saints may be disfellowshipped, which does not include a loss of church membership. Once disfellowshipped, persons may not take the sacrament or enter LDS temples, nor may they participate actively in (as opposed to merely attending and listening to) other church meetings, though disfellowshipped persons may attend most LDS functions and are permitted to wear temple garments. For lesser sins, or in cases where the sinner appears truly repentant, individuals may be put on probation for a time, which means that further sin will result in disfellowshipment or excommunication.
The decision to excommunicate a Melchizedek Priesthood holder is generally the province of the leadership of a Stake, which consists of several local wards. Excommunications occur only after a formal “church disciplinary council” (what was once called a “church court;” the change was apparently meant to avoid talking about guilt and instead focus on repentance).
The procedure followed by a church disciplinary council is described in church handbooks and the Doctrine and Covenants 102:9-18. For a regular member, the bishop (leader of the ward) determines whether excommunication is needed. He does this in consultation with his two counselors, but there is no vote: the bishop makes the determination in a spirit of prayer. That decision is appealable to the stake leadership.
A Melchizedek Priesthood holder, however, starts at the stake level. There, the stake presidency and Stake High Council handle matters. Six of the twelve members of the high council are assigned to represent the member in question to “prevent insult or injustice.” The member is invited to attend, but the council can go forward without him. Again, the members of the high council consult with the stake president, but the decision about which discipline is necessary is the stake president’s alone. Officially, it is possible to appeal this decision to the Church’s world leaders.
Considerations used in what form of discipline to use follows the following factors, listed in order from those that suggest a stern dicispline, to those that suggest a more lenient discipline:
1. Violation of Covenants: Covenants are made in conjunction with specific ordinances in the LDS Church. Covenants that might be broken, are usually those surrounding marriage covenants, temple covenants, priesthood covenants, etc.
2. Position of Trust or Authority: Area of responsibility factor into discipline. Leaders in the church have important responsibilities, and the same action committed by a member of the congregation may not result in as severe a discipline as a leader might receive.
3. Repetition: Repetition of a sin is more severe than a single instance.
4. Magnitude: How often, how many individuals were impacted, and who knows all play a part.
5. Age, Maturity, and Experience: Those who are young in age, or immature in their understanding are afforded leniency.
6. Interests of the Innocent: How the discipline will impact family members may be considered.
7. Time between Transgression and Confession: If the sin was committed in distant past, and there has not been repetition, leniency may considered.
8. Voluntary Confession: Did the person voluntarily come forward, or were they caught in the act.
9. Evidence of Repentance: Sorrow for sin, and demonstrated commitment to repentance, as well as faith in Christ all play a role in determining the severity of discipline.
Those who are excommunicated lose their church membership and the right to partake of the sacrament. Notices of excommunication may be made public—especially in cases of apostasy, where members could be misled—but the specific reasons for individual excommunications are typically kept confidential and are seldom made public.
Persons who have been excommunicated are welcome and encouraged to attend church meetings, but cannot participate in the meetings: offer prayers for the congregation, give talks, etc., cannot enter LDS temples, or wear temple garments. Excommunicated members may be re-baptized after a waiting period and sincere repentance, as judged by a series of interviews with church leaders.
Thank you resty for proving my point.
The Mormon Church sanctions every avenue of intellectual inquiry into most everything — with the notable exception of the TRUTH about themselves and their own history. Yet the church continues to grow — built on a foundation of fear and lies and deceit.
It is absurd for someone of his background to claim he knew nothing of it before, except as a way to sucker ignorant people into thinking this was something the church covers up. Nor would going around saying ‘Hey, did you know Joseph Smith practiced polygamy?’ be grounds for excommunication. Like I said before, his story doesn’t pass the smell test, not by a mile.
Go and read 1 Cor 5, Paul tells the saints there to excommunicate a member for marrying his step-mother (’Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. v13). Paul made it clear that he didn’t want that person’s presence to be a corrupting influence on other members. Are you going to call that cultic too?
It isn’t about being ‘fearful of investigation’ it is about upholding standards. If your church (care to actually say which one it is?) has no standards that members must adhere to that is it’s own business. I can certainly see why Satan would have no need to send a wolf in sheep’s clothing into a congregation of wolves though.
Also, excommunication is a merciful act. When a person is baptized they make a covenant with God. If later on they have no intention of keeping their part of it, it is better for them to be released from that obligation than to continue violating the covenant they made. If they then repent, they can be baptized once again, starting over fresh.
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