Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
I don’t think protestants believe Mary was an “eternal virgin.” Some maybe, but certainly not most.
Mormon’s used to teach that God had physical relations with Mary in order to impregnate her either by insemination or otherwise.
Mormonism also taught that God had many wives and that celestial polygamy was the norm. I assumed that pointed stongly to the idea that Mary was one of God’s wives. It would be better than believing Mary was one of God’s daughters wouldn’t it?
Has the Church distanced themselves from a physical impregnation of Mary.
Those are very different questions. For me, the answer is, unless they are willing to affirm the Nicene and Chalcedonian creeds, they are not.
That's not a judgment on them as neighbors, co-workers, or Presidents. In point of fact, I am seriously considering supporting Romney in the primaries. But I do so with the knowledge that he isn't "Christian" as historic, orthodox Christianity defines the term.
AC5691:” that Mary was an eternal virgin and was, along with Jesus, the only person on Earth to have never sinned.”
I wonder which group has more true Christians, the Mormon Church or the Roman Catholic Church?
Even though the RC church has deified Mary and made an idol of her, I still think they win hands down.
Personally, I think they both border on heresy and cultism. One is cannibalistic and iconic while the other is polytheistic...
Thanks. By "trinitarian formula" I assume you mean baptizing "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Matthew 28:19)
I am told that not all Christians practice baptism by water. Is baptism required to become a Christian?
As for the creeds, I have several questions:
(1) Which version of each creed is definitive?
(2) The Nicene Creed dates from the fourth century; the Athanasian Creed is even later. What about those who lived before these creeds were formulated? Would they be considered Christians in your view?
(3) I am told that the Eastern Orthodox do not formally recognize either the Apostles' Creed or the Athanasian Creed. (Someone please correct me if I am wrong.) Are they Christians?
It sounds to me that it depends on who is the defining authority when it comes to the definition of a Christian.
What is your definition of Christian?
None and this is why "The intent of this thread is not to determine if a Mormon should be president, or if you want one as a next door neighbor, but are they Christian?"
But they will not be Mormons when they die if they are elect..
Umm Marys eternal Chasity is *not* a cornerstone of Christianity. To believe she was chased until death or only until after the birth of Christ is not a dividing line
There is more scriptural evidence for her *not* being chased her whole life then her dying without knowing her husband.
Matthew 1:
21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us). 24 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, 25 but knew her not **until** she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
Ill take my Shot at it: One God in three distinct persons together one God head and eternal. Christ, one of the Godhead, was sent to serve the punishment for our sins and this grace *alone* accounts for salvation. Once you step outside of this you're in trouble... Though I am no theologian so Im sure my post can be picked apart..
Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what parts you dont believe..
It appears from all these threads that "Christians" are those that believe extra-Biblical creeds, and Mormons are not Christians because they teach stuff that is not in the Bible. How in the world they can say that with a straight face is beyond me. They will say if you don't believe in the creeds then you are not Christian, then go a quote from Rev that you cannot add to the Bible, and therefore Mormons are evil.
Your asking which version of a creed is definitive is the wrong question. The question should be "why are you teaching something that is not in the Bible?" After all, that is the ruler used to measure Mormons.
I think if we stuck to just the Bible, we would find that Mormons are very close to what is in there, and often far closer than creed-beliving "Christians."
N3WBI3:”Umm Marys eternal Chasity is *not* a cornerstone of Christianity. To believe she was chased until death or only until after the birth of Christ is not a dividing line
There is more scriptural evidence for her *not* being chased her whole life then her dying without knowing her husband.”
So who is chasing whom in the above cases? Perhaps it was chastity you were implying? (chaste).
The church generally does not speculate on the specific how of what happened. Some things are left to the mysteries which will be revealed in the proper time. But even if a church authority did so speculate on the physical how, that is a long ways from your speculation that Mary was Christ’s spiritual mother and was one of God’s wives. The idea that one lives a mortal life more than once is contrary to church teachings.
So Mary was God’s spiritual offspring through one of His Celestial wives and he begat Jesus through her. I get it, now....hmmmmm
I agree with you about the real question. (See my Post #17.)
Thus far, only a few posters have shown any interest in defining Christian. It seems to me that until that is done, we cannot possibly decide who is or is not a Christian.
yes, it was... thank you..
Logo,
This is not true in the process of defining something you may come across a property which can be used in an exclusionary way. In this case the Mormon penchant for polytheism (Where by they themselves can become a God) excludes them from Christianity. The Fact they limit Gods power by saying there are other Gods of other planets also excludes them..
points of Heresy are rather easy to spot when they are that bad..
Yet it is the Creedians who presume to sit in judgement as to whether members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are actually "Christians."
Even if I did agree with your characterization of our beliefs (which I most certainly do not), it misses the point.
You cannot reasonably call something a heresy unless you have some definition of orthodoxy.
Likewise, you cannot say Mormons are not Christians unless you can say what beliefs, practices, or characteristics define a Christian. How do you define Christian?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.