Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
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(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
Why did generations of your family continue to visit a doctor who’s advice doesn’t work and seems very non-medical in nature?
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
by Jill Martin Rische
On Sunday, February 25, 2007, Meet the Press had an interesting roundtable discussion on Mormonism that reflected the abundance of their journalistic ignorance. What I found particularly amusing (choosing humor in lieu of intense frustration) was their patronizing comment that Christians know very little about Mormonism. They proceeded to cite a recent poll that showed 45% of Evangelicals view Mormonism negatively (although the source of the poll was fuzzy). This seemed a bit illogical, since Christians must know something for the negative percentage to be so high. No mention was made of the unique Mormon beliefs that might cause millions of rational souls to view them with a healthy dose of skepticism. After pondering the wisdom of the media elite (or lack thereof), I decided to research a short list of Mormon facts to help guide them through the dense jungle of Mormon Doctrine:
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
1. Mormons can become gods and goddesses.
2. Goddesses will spend eternity in full submission to their god-husband.
3. Mormon women will give birth “forever and ever” to spirit-babies.
4. Mormon men can have multiple wives in heaven—eternal polygamy.
5. Heavenly Father is an exalted man who lives with his goddess wife, Heavenly Mother, on a planet near the great star Kolob.
6. American Indians are descendants of the wicked Lamanites, who were Israelites that God cursed with dark skin.
7. God the Father had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus, who is the half brother of Lucifer.
8. All Christian churches are an abomination.
9. Mormons need 4 secret handshakes to get into the Celestial heaven.
10. Joseph Smith revealed that the actual Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, Missouri.
And so you see, 45% of Christians know what thousands of the media elite do not: Mormonism is not Christian.
—————————————————————-
Sources:
[1] Journal of Discourses 1:50-51; J of D 8:115; Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:20
[2] Doctrine and Covenants 84:33-9; Goddesses are always subject to a god. Women are denied the Priesthood (meaning they are denied authority—not the same as Catholic priesthood). “In the LDS universe, theologically described as the real eternal universe, each man who achieves the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is worth many times more than each woman, even the women who qualify at that highest Celestial level, because each man who achieves Godhood-level may have numerous God-wives, but each God-wife may have only one husband. This can only mean that each “heavenly father” is worth many times more than each “heavenly mother.” And, even if the ratio were strictly one to one, the male God, not the female God, holds the priesthood authority and is the only one of the God parents to whom his earth-mortality children are allowed to pray. So Mormon women can never, NEVER achieve equality with men, no matter how outstanding or righteous the women are. That’s just the way it’s set up.” MORMON WOMEN, PROZAC® and THERAPY By Kent Ponder, Ph.D. e-mail address: kponder@swcp.com
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/prozac.htm.
[3] LDS Apostle Orson Pratt wrote, “Each father and mother will be in the condition to multiply forever and ever” (The Seer, 37).
[4] Doctrine and Covenants 132; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:269; Men can still be sealed for eternity (not time) to women other than their wives; “The practice of polygamy has been discontinued, but the doctrine of polygamy has never been revoked. D&C 132 is still part of the LDS canon. And some current church practices are still based on polygamous principles.” See pro-Mormon site http://mormonopenforum.blogsome.com/2005/08/02/eternal-polygamy/ (accessed February 25, 2007).
[5] Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:2-4, 9; J of D, 26:214.
[6] Book of Mormon: Alma 3:6-19; 3 Nephi 2:14-15; Enos 1:20; J of D, 7: 290-291.
[7] Journal of Discourses 8: 116; J of D 8: 211; J of D 8: 115; Mormon Doctrine p.546-547.
[8] Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith—History 1:19. Smith claimed God sent him to “restore” true Christianity.
[9] Celestial Kingdom is the highest of 3 levels in the Mormon heaven (need handshakes to get past the angel guarding the veil); See ex-Mormon site http://www.mormoncurtain.com/(accessed February 25, 2007); David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, http://lds-mormon.com/buerger.shtml (accessed February 25, 2007).
[10] Doctrine and Covenants 116; Journal of Discourses, 10:235; Smith named the Spring Hill, Daviess County, Missouri area Adam-Ondi-Ahman.
Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com
My personal favorite of the heresies is #8 since Smith claimed, in effect, God's Holy Spirit had failed to maintain Apostolic Authority and Salvation once the last Apostle to walk with Jesus died, and God needed to 'restore' that which His Spirit could not maintain so He had to have Joseph Smith for restoring what God's Holy SPirit could not maintain! And Smith seems to think he's that vital to God because old Joe claimed no man ever accomplished what he did, not even Jesus. Sorry folks, if the roots are dangling in a poisonous pool, the fruit is poisonous. Mormonism isnot Christian by any stretch, Mormonism Apologists' imagination notwithstanding.
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
by Jill Martin Rische
On Sunday, February 25, 2007, Meet the Press had an interesting roundtable discussion on Mormonism that reflected the abundance of their journalistic ignorance. What I found particularly amusing (choosing humor in lieu of intense frustration) was their patronizing comment that Christians know very little about Mormonism. They proceeded to cite a recent poll that showed 45% of Evangelicals view Mormonism negatively (although the source of the poll was fuzzy). This seemed a bit illogical, since Christians must know something for the negative percentage to be so high. No mention was made of the unique Mormon beliefs that might cause millions of rational souls to view them with a healthy dose of skepticism. After pondering the wisdom of the media elite (or lack thereof), I decided to research a short list of Mormon facts to help guide them through the dense jungle of Mormon Doctrine:
Top 10 Amazing Facts of Mormonism
1. Mormons can become gods and goddesses.
2. Goddesses will spend eternity in full submission to their god-husband.
3. Mormon women will give birth “forever and ever” to spirit-babies.
4. Mormon men can have multiple wives in heaven—eternal polygamy.
5. Heavenly Father is an exalted man who lives with his goddess wife, Heavenly Mother, on a planet near the great star Kolob.
6. American Indians are descendants of the wicked Lamanites, who were Israelites that God cursed with dark skin.
7. God the Father had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus, who is the half brother of Lucifer.
8. All Christian churches are an abomination.
9. Mormons need 4 secret handshakes to get into the Celestial heaven.
10. Joseph Smith revealed that the actual Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, Missouri.
And so you see, 45% of Christians know what thousands of the media elite do not: Mormonism is not Christian.
—————————————————————-
Sources:
[1] Journal of Discourses 1:50-51; J of D 8:115; Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:20
[2] Doctrine and Covenants 84:33-9; Goddesses are always subject to a god. Women are denied the Priesthood (meaning they are denied authority—not the same as Catholic priesthood). “In the LDS universe, theologically described as the real eternal universe, each man who achieves the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom is worth many times more than each woman, even the women who qualify at that highest Celestial level, because each man who achieves Godhood-level may have numerous God-wives, but each God-wife may have only one husband. This can only mean that each “heavenly father” is worth many times more than each “heavenly mother.” And, even if the ratio were strictly one to one, the male God, not the female God, holds the priesthood authority and is the only one of the God parents to whom his earth-mortality children are allowed to pray. So Mormon women can never, NEVER achieve equality with men, no matter how outstanding or righteous the women are. That’s just the way it’s set up.” MORMON WOMEN, PROZAC® and THERAPY By Kent Ponder, Ph.D. e-mail address: kponder@swcp.com
http://home.teleport.com/~packham/prozac.htm.
[3] LDS Apostle Orson Pratt wrote, “Each father and mother will be in the condition to multiply forever and ever” (The Seer, 37).
[4] Doctrine and Covenants 132; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:269; Men can still be sealed for eternity (not time) to women other than their wives; “The practice of polygamy has been discontinued, but the doctrine of polygamy has never been revoked. D&C 132 is still part of the LDS canon. And some current church practices are still based on polygamous principles.” See pro-Mormon site http://mormonopenforum.blogsome.com/2005/08/02/eternal-polygamy/ (accessed February 25, 2007).
[5] Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:2-4, 9; J of D, 26:214.
[6] Book of Mormon: Alma 3:6-19; 3 Nephi 2:14-15; Enos 1:20; J of D, 7: 290-291.
[7] Journal of Discourses 8: 116; J of D 8: 211; J of D 8: 115; Mormon Doctrine p.546-547.
[8] Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith—History 1:19. Smith claimed God sent him to “restore” true Christianity.
[9] Celestial Kingdom is the highest of 3 levels in the Mormon heaven (need handshakes to get past the angel guarding the veil); See ex-Mormon site http://www.mormoncurtain.com/(accessed February 25, 2007); David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, http://lds-mormon.com/buerger.shtml (accessed February 25, 2007).
[10] Doctrine and Covenants 116; Journal of Discourses, 10:235; Smith named the Spring Hill, Daviess County, Missouri area Adam-Ondi-Ahman.
Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com
My personal favorite of the heresies is #8 since Smith claimed, in effect, God's Holy Spirit had failed to maintain Apostolic Authority and Salvation once the last Apostle to walk with Jesus died, and God needed to 'restore' that which His Spirit could not maintain so He had to have Joseph Smith for restoring what God's Holy SPirit could not maintain! And Smith seems to think he's that vital to God because old Joe claimed no man ever accomplished what he did, not even Jesus. Sorry folks, if the roots are dangling in a poisonous pool, the fruit is poisonous. Mormonism isnot Christian by any stretch, Mormonism Apologists' imagination notwithstanding.
My family “doctor” consults a different book which he says has MORE authority. Therefore the Board (who adheres to the final authority’s “Book”) is authorized to make a determination.
The determination wasn't unanimous, but in the case of this particular doctor, it has been determined by a vast majority that my doctor is indeed a fraudulent quack. You however are free to consult with him regarding your health. It is your right....as long as he doesn't call himself a doctor and hang a fallacious certificate in order to deceive you. As long as he does this, he is subject to censure.
Spiff, my story is an obvious analogy. I suppose it wasn’t obvious to you.
But thanks for calling me a liar.....again.
You have knowledge and evidence of an ongoing crime but have not contacted the authorities?
If some tragic fate befalls even one of this man’s “patients,” you will share some of the blame, because you had the power to stop it.
Well, if you want to determine truth based on majority vote, go for it, but don’t presume to call a “doctor” that doesn’t meet your standards fraudulent.
You just don't like seeing it in black and white.
A lot of what Mormons teach and have taught looks pretty ugly on paper. It sounds and looks ok in the comfort of the Mormon sanctuary, but when it is brought out into the open and exposed to the light, like it is here, it really looks ugly.
Some members will try to paint it in as good a light as possible, while other members, like yourself, will lash out at the messenger and accuse the messenger of lying.
They say that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that barks loudest is the one who got hit.
You don’t always recognize dangerous medical advice until you’re dead. But the doctor’s advice and prescription of constant works probably made my ancestors feel better about themselves.
Also many of them continued swallowing the sugar pills because they were frighted. Some of them actually had knives held to their throat until they swallowed. Of coures they were told it was for their own good.
I should let you know, that over the years we’ve had many family members who left the doctor’s care in order to find actual proper medical advice. Two of my sisters, have now joined me in better care.
Also there are several of the doctor’s ex-patients who are on this very website who try to tell the truth regarding the doctor. They are repeatedly called liars too.
I’m pretty sure the story is an analogy of the LDS church. Am I right Colorcountry?
Externally speaking, a Christian is a person who has been baptized with water using the trinitarian formula, and can unreservedly confess the historic creeds of the church (Apostles’, Nicene, and the Athanasian). Their lives are also marked by an attention to the commandments of Christ.
In an attempt to continue the analogy, I have to suggest, that no one is going to know if any of the doctors or medicines really worked...until they are dead. So what does it really matter which doctor they visit or which medicine they take?
Posted only to elicit comments from folks that may have read this book
(e.g., is the book fairly accurate or an unfair recounting of history...):
One Nation Under Gods: A History of the Mormon Church
by Richard Abanes
You are right. People are free to continue whatever beliefs they want.
The problem (as I’ve stated before) is that the Doctor holds a fake doctor certificate. He isn’t what he professes to be. If he were honest, and told everyone up front that he isn’t a certified Doctor, and that he practices alternative medicine, I wouldn’t have any problem with what he does.
To break it down so that there are no misunderstandings, I will leave my analogy behind.
I don’t care if Mormons wish to practice their beliefs. I do object to them proclaiming to be Christian just like everyone else. When I ws a youngster, the LDS Church actually disliked being called Christian. They’ve recently changed their tune and want to be seen as more “mainstream.” I see it as a way for them to convince more people to join them.
About one half of all LDS members become inactive or leave the Church entirely. All those people who leave, left for a reason....they aren’t all liars.
You've just shot a huge hole in Gamecock. Mormons would unhesitatingly subscribe to all those beliefs.
“Mormons would unhesitatingly subscribe to all those beliefs.”
Wrong. You must not be a Mormon to believe that. Mary was a human being with the same defects of all human beings, though she was an elect lady. Mormons do not believe she was sinless. Only Jesus Christ lived a sinless life on this earth.
All except that eternal virgin thingy. Mormon’s actually believe that Mary is an eternal wife of Heavenly Father and was the spritual as well as physical mother of Jesus Christ.
Mary has many offspring according to Mormonism.
Show me one Mormon who believes that Mary was an "eternal virgin" or that she was the "only person other than Christ to have never sinned".
Are you a Mormon? Do Mormons teach that? They didn't when I was a Mormon. I didn't subscribe to it then and I don't subscribe to it now.
Do you?
Mormons go only on what is in the Bible in regards to Mary. I have never seen it taught that Mary was the eternal wife of God the Father, nor that she was the Savior’s “spiritual mother”. Mormons teach that she has several offspring because of the scriptural references to Jesus’ brothers. We believe she had children by Joseph after the virgin birth and that she and Joseph enjoyed a normal married relationship during their lives together.
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