Posted on 03/04/2007 8:21:23 AM PST by Iscool
Every Sunday is a day of rejoicing, so they all get special treats on the Lord's Day.
I hope to get a couple of cows and a couple of dairy goats this year. I LOVE goats and take great exception to our Lord's division of sheep and goats -- except that I loved my sheep too ....
But goats are so funny and dear.
In addition to Rome Sweet Home which tells his conversion story......I would recommedn "The Lamb's Supper". It's excellent.
Oops, sorry...
I couldn't find the one with him wearing the rainbow wig and holding the "John:180" sign (despite having a 400-post photo album in the Backroom...)
Kolokotronis in an earlier post was talking about never trusting French clowns--and that guy was the first thing in my (rather weird) head...8^)
It's really great to see your post. NYer has been an invaluable asset to this forum; she is also a lady in her manner of posting. And just for the record, I do hope you will do more "investigating."
I came into the Catholic Church almost 60 years ago, as an adult. There were a number of reasons for my final decision to be a Catholic: one was my lovely Catholic neighbor lady who was so kind to me when I was a kid. Another was that we lived only a block away from the Cathedral in my city and I would see crowds of people going there at all times of day and night to pray, and as a teenager I would go into the Church to see what was there that attracted them. That is when I first became aware of the Eucharistic Presence, though I didn't know at the time that was what it was. Lastly, I came into the Church because someone asked me to think about becoming a Catholic. Only then did I remember how many small and, at the time, insignificant moments and things had already led me to my decision. I was baptized on Easter Sunday (the way they did it then--now it is at Easter Vigil).
Just know that everyone can go through periods of "coldness" or tiredness in prayer and in worship and in living the Christian life. We aren't yet perfect. And know that it is in those times of weakness and frailty that we are actually growing more and more close to the Lord.
Today at Mass, the readings were (Old Testament) about Abram hearing God's voice to enter into covenant--ONLY when everything was plunged into darkness did Abram (soon to be Abraham) hear the Lord. The Gospel reading was about the Transfiguration; Peter and John did not hear the voice of the Lord until everything had turned dark. It is called the "night of the senses" so that our spiritual life can be enlightened. We are to learn how to be "children of the light".
God be with you on your journey.
ROE
We had a goat for awhile. Our next door neighbor where we used to live when we were first married was a WWI vet who was gassed in the Argonne. Every so often his lungs would act up and he would have to go into the VA for awhile. He had a goat who lived in his back yard to eat the weeds, and when he went into hospital we always looked after the goat.
We named her Leona (after a dart player named Leon that my husband disliked) and treated her like a queen. First cut alfalfa hay and liberal amounts of Purina Goat Chow. She was desperately thin because he expected her to live on weeds, so she really enjoyed staying with us. The local feed store (there was still one in DOWNTOWN Atlanta at that time) used to laugh at me when I showed up in my old BMW sedan in my dress-for-success pinstriped wool suit, silk blouse, pearls, and high heels to buy hay and feed on my way home from work.
But we loved Leona, and she loved us. She learned the sound of my car engine and would be standing on her goat shelter watching for me as I pulled in with her dinner. Only problem was my cats were afraid of her (she used to chase them).
Our neighbor eventually paid his debt to Nature, and his family came up from south Georgia and took Leona (even though he gave us Leona when he left for the VA the last time, we didn't want to fight with family.) I hope they didn't take advantage of her beautifully plump and glossy state to hold a barbeque . . . I really think she was too old to eat though.
Hee,heee,heee.
Embarassment is the sin that children visit on parents for 2 generations...
Second question: What web site did you get this information from? I have news for you. It's wrong!
Third question: where does Matthew 15:1-14 refer to the Catholic Church. And I'll give you the answer: Nowhere! In fact it is a traditional Protestant interpretation to assume that when Jesus condemns the Pharisees He is somehow also condemning the Christian Church. To call our traditions "traditions of men" is (a)to condemn the Bible, since it is a tradition of ours a thing we "handed across" the generations, and (b) to assume what you set out to prove. And consequently, it may impress your friends, but it is a circular argument to us, and therefore not persuasive. You guys argue like Muslims.
In fact, you guys have your traditions and you guys depend on your traditional interpretations of Scripture. But we do not think we are Pharisees. The Pharisees were a faction of Jews who rejected Jesus. That does not describe us.
The interesting question is why you think it does.
Your grandchildren are your reward for not drowning your teenagers!
They are smart and when they love you they really love you. I had a Nubian, Beulah, whom I loved as much as any dog. When she died -- well I will grieve for her until I die. She was a fine goat and a fine person and yielded prodigiously (for a Nubian) and about 4% butterfat, and she loved me and spoke to me as a mother goat speaks to her kids. And she was beautiful - a steely grey. When I have forgotten her, you will know I am losing my mind.
Wow.
And an "educated" man writes this?!
Good Lord... So much ignorance....
I'll ask Mary and the Saints to intercede on your (and his) behalf... :-p
Treasures....
Thanks so much..
Forgiving others isn't an act of will for me. I know what you mean & all, but it's like I don't have a way to plug hurt or anger into my long term receptors. I'd have to work to remember to feel hurt or anger & that seems like a useless waste of energy.
Somedays (not too often right now, I think God is setting me up for a trial) it's all dark and mechanical and all I have to offer God in response to his amazing love is grudging obedience. (Did I mention I'm a sinner? I'm a sinner.) But I figure that the feeling will follow the choice after a while. I once heard an Indian girl say her marriage was arranged, but the love came. Sometimes I'm all about the leeks and garlic and fleshpots. So God mercifully hauls my sorry butt out into the desert.
I'm a sinner too! Thank goodness God is forgiving & loves me despite myself. I stopped fighting against Him years ago & in return, I've found a quiet simple joy.
He gives me mannah. I complain it's coming out of my nose. So He smacks me upside the haid. Like an emotionally disturbed child, I am angry at my Father, but relying on Him to win in any conflict, and He has never let me down, for which I praise His holy name and even at the grave I make my song (which I will not make right now because it's Lent and I enjoy not saying the A-word during Lent.)
Meanwhile, I wait & try not to become too impatient.
As soon as I finish the C.S. Lewis books I recently invested in...
When Catholics open their Bibles they realize that their belief is not totally based on the Bible:
Gen. to Rev. - Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word. Scripture also mandates the use of tradition. This fact alone disproves sola Scriptura.
Matt. 28:19; Mark 16:15 - those that preached the Gospel to all creation but did not write the Gospel were not less obedient to Jesus, or their teachings less important.
Matt. 28:20 - "observe ALL I have commanded," but, as we see in John 20:30; 21:25, not ALL Jesus taught is in Scripture. So there must be things outside of Scripture that we must observe. This disproves "Bible alone" theology.
Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to "preach," not write, and only three apostles wrote. The others who did not write were not less faithful to Jesus, because Jesus gave them no directive to write. There is no evidence in the Bible or elsewhere that Jesus intended the Bible to be sole authority of the Christian faith.
Luke 1:1-4 - Luke acknowledges that the faithful have already received the teachings of Christ, and is writing his Gospel only so that they "realize the certainty of the teachings you have received." Luke writes to verify the oral tradition they already received.
John 20:30; 21:25 - Jesus did many other things not written in the Scriptures. These have been preserved through the oral apostolic tradition and they are equally a part of the Deposit of Faith.
Acts 8:30-31; Heb. 5:12 - these verses show that we need help in interpreting the Scriptures. We cannot interpret them infallibly on our own. We need divinely appointed leadership within the Church to teach us.
Acts 15:1-14 – Peter resolves the Church’s first doctrinal issue regarding circumcision without referring to Scriptures.
Acts 17:28 – Paul quotes the writings of the pagan poets when he taught at the Aeropagus. Thus, Paul appeals to sources outside of Scripture to teach about God.
1 Cor. 5:9-11 - this verse shows that a prior letter written to Corinth is equally authoritative but not part of the New Testament canon. Paul is again appealing to a source outside of Scripture to teach the Corinthians. This disproves Scripture alone.
1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful to obey apostolic tradition, and not Scripture alone.
Phil. 4:9 - Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. There is nothing ever about obeying Scripture alone.
Col. 4:16 - this verse shows that a prior letter written to Laodicea is equally authoritative but not part of the New Testament canon. Paul once again appeals to a source outside of the Bible to teach about the Word of God.
1 Thess. 2:13 – Paul says, “when you received the word of God, which you heard from us..” How can the Bible be teaching first century Christians that only the Bible is their infallible source of teaching if, at the same time, oral revelation was being given to them as well? Protestants can’t claim that there is one authority (Bible) while allowing two sources of authority (Bible and oral revelation).
1 Thess. 3:10 - Paul wants to see the Thessalonians face to face and supply what is lacking. His letter is not enough.
2 Thess. 2:14 - Paul says that God has called us "through our Gospel." What is the fullness of the Gospel?
2 Thess. 2:15 - the fullness of the Gospel is the apostolic tradition which includes either teaching by word of mouth or by letter. Scripture does not say "letter alone." The Catholic Church has the fullness of the Christian faith through its rich traditions of Scripture, oral tradition and teaching authority (or Magisterium).
2 Thess 3:6 - Paul instructs us to obey apostolic tradition. There is no instruction in the Scriptures about obeying the Bible alone (the word "Bible" is not even in the Bible).
1 Tim. 3:14-15 - Paul prefers to speak and not write, and is writing only in the event that he is delayed and cannot be with Timothy.
2 Tim. 2:2 - Paul says apostolic tradition is passed on to future generations, but he says nothing about all apostolic traditions being eventually committed to the Bible.
2 Tim. 3:14 - continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it. Again, this refers to tradition which is found outside of the Bible.
James 4:5 - James even appeals to Scripture outside of the Old Testament canon ("He yearns jealously over the spirit which He has made...")
2 Peter 1:20 - interpreting Scripture is not a matter of one's own private interpretation. Therefore, it must be a matter of "public" interpretation of the Church. The Divine Word needs a Divine Interpreter. Private judgment leads to divisions, and this is why there are 30,000 different Protestant denominations.
2 Peter 3:15-16 - Peter says Paul's letters are inspired, but not all his letters are in the New Testament canon. See, for example, 1 Cor. 5:9-10; Col. 4:16. Also, Peter's use of the word "ignorant" means unschooled, which presupposes the requirement of oral apostolic instruction that comes from the Church.
2 Peter 3:16 - the Scriptures are difficult to understand and can be distorted by the ignorant to their destruction. God did not guarantee the Holy Spirit would lead each of us to infallibly interpret the Scriptures. But this is what Protestants must argue in order to support their doctrine of sola Scriptura. History and countless divisions in Protestantism disprove it.
1 John 4:1 - again, God instructs us to test all things, test all spirits. Notwithstanding what many Protestants argue, God's Word is not always obvious.
1 Sam. 3:1-9 - for example, the Lord speaks to Samuel, but Samuel doesn't recognize it is God. The Word of God is not self-attesting.
1 Kings 13:1-32 - in this story, we see that a man can't discern between God's word (the commandment "don't eat") and a prophet's erroneous word (that God had rescinded his commandment "don't eat"). The words of the Bible, in spite of what many Protestants must argue, are not always clear and understandable. This is why there are 30,000 different Protestant churches and one Holy Catholic Church.
Gen. to Rev. - Protestants must admit that knowing what books belong in the Bible is necessary for our salvation. However, because the Bible has no "inspired contents page," you must look outside the Bible to see how its books were selected. This destroys the sola Scriptura theory. The canon of Scripture is a Revelation from God which is necessary for our salvation, and which comes from outside the Bible. Instead, this Revelation was given by God to the Catholic Church, the pinnacle and foundation of the truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
Catholics also believe that Oral Tradition has much to do with their beliefs. Here are the Scripture passages to support that:
Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.
Mark 3:14; 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach (not write) the gospel to the world. Jesus gives no commandment to the apostles to write, and gives them no indication that the oral apostolic word he commanded them to communicate would later die in the fourth century. If Jesus wanted Christianity to be limited to a book (which would be finalized four centuries later), wouldn't He have said a word about it?
Luke 10:16 - He who hears you (not "who reads your writings"), hears me. The oral word passes from Jesus to the apostles to their successors by the gracious gifts of the Holy Spirit. This succession has been preserved in the Holy Catholic Church.
Luke 24:47 - Jesus explains that repentance and forgiveness of sins must be preached (not written) in Christ's name to all nations. For Protestants to argue that the word of God is now limited to a book (subject to thousands of different interpretations) is to not only ignore Scripture, but introduce a radical theory about how God spreads His word which would have been unbelievable to the people at the time of Jesus.
Acts 2:3-4 - the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in the form of "tongues" of fire so that they would "speak" (not just write) the Word.
Acts 15:27 - Judas and Silas, successors to the apostles, were sent to bring God's infallible Word by "word of mouth."
Rom. 10:8 - the Word is near you, on your lips and in your heart, which is the word of faith which is preached (not just written).
Rom. 10:17 - faith comes by what is "heard" (not just read) which is the Word that is "preached" (not read). This word comes from the oral tradition of the apostles. Those in countries where the Scriptures are not available can still come to faith in Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 15:1,11 - faith comes from what is "preached" (not read). For non-Catholics to argue that oral tradition once existed but exists no longer, they must prove this from Scripture. But no where does Scripture say oral tradition died with the apostles. To the contrary, Scripture says the oral word abides forever.
Gal. 1:11-12 - the Gospel which is "preached" (not read) to me is not a man's Gospel, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
Eph. 1:13 - hearing (not reading) the Word of truth is the gospel of our salvation. This is the living word in the Church's living tradition.
Col. 1:5 - of this you have "heard" (not read) before in the word of truth, the Gospel which has come to you.
1 Thess. 2:13 - the Word of God is what you have "heard" (not read). The orally communicated word of God lasts forever, and this word is preserved within the Church by the Holy Spirit.
2 Tim. 1:13 - oral communications are protected by the Spirit. They abide forever. Oral authority does not die with the apostles.
2 Tim. 4:2,6-7 - Paul, at the end of his life, charges Timothy to preach (not write) the Word. Oral teaching does not die with Paul.
Titus 1:3 - God's word is manifested "through preaching" (not writing). This "preaching" is the tradition that comes from the apostles.
1 Peter 1:25 - the Word of the Lord abides forever and that Word is the good news that was "preached" (not read) to you. Because the Word is preached by the apostles and it lasts forever, it must be preserved by the apostles' successors, or this could not be possible. Also, because the oral word abides forever, oral apostolic tradition could not have died in the fourth century with all teachings being committed to Scripture.
2 Peter 1:12, 15 - Peter says that he will leave a "means to recall these things in mind." But since this was his last canonical epistle, this "means to recall" must therefore be the apostolic tradition and teaching authority of his office that he left behind.
2 John 1:12; 3 John 13 - John prefers to speak and not to write. Throughout history, the Word of God was always transferred orally and Jesus did not change this. To do so would have been a radical departure from the Judaic tradition.
Deut. 31:9-12 - Moses had the law read only every seven years. Was the word of God absent during the seven year interval? Of course not. The Word of God has always been given orally by God's appointed ones, and was never limited to Scripture.
Isa. 40:8 - the grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of our God (not necessarily written) will stand forever.
Isa. 59:21 - Isaiah prophesies the promise of a living voice to hand on the Word of God to generations by mouth, not by a book. This is either a false prophecy, or it has been fulfilled by the Catholic Church.
Joel 1:3 - tell your children of the Word of the Lord, and they tell their children, and their children tell another generation.
Mal. 2:7 - the lips of a priest guard knowledge, and we should seek instruction from his mouth. Protestants want to argue all oral tradition was committed to Scripture? But no where does Scripture say this.
Leona wasn't a purebred goat - still not sure WHAT breed she was, just a chance-bred goat that our neighbor had gotten from somewhere. She had lop ears, but not the Nubian face, a short profile with a definite stop at the brow. She was rather small, and she was mostly black with white feet and a white blaze on her face. Very short, close-lying, coarse hair, and small horns pointing backwards and lying close to the head.
I wish I had a picture of her, you could probably identify her breed for me!
**The sixth thing a Catholic learns is there is no Pope in the Bible and Peter was not the first Pope. **
**The seventh thing a Catholic learns is the 12 Apostles and New Testament Saints were not Catholic. **
Three for one on this!
Matt. 10:1,40 - Jesus declares to His apostles, "he who receives you, receives Me, and he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One who sent Me." Jesus freely gives His authority to the apostles in order for them to effectively convert the world.
Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - the apostles are given Christ's authority to make visible decisions on earth that will be ratified in heaven. God raises up humanity in Christ by exalting his chosen leaders and endowing them with the authority and grace they need to bring about the conversion of all. Without a central authority in the Church, there would be chaos (as there is in Protestantism).
Luke 9:1; 10:19 - Jesus gives the apostles authority over the natural and the supernatural (diseases, demons, serpents, and scorpions).
Luke 10:16 - Jesus tells His apostles, "he who hears you, hears Me." When we hear the bishops' teaching on the faith, we hear Christ Himself.
Acts 1:15-26 - the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ's own authority.
Acts 1:20 - a successor of Judas is chosen. The authority of his office (his "bishopric") is respected notwithstanding his egregious sin. The necessity to have apostolic succession in order for the Church to survive was understood by all. God never said, "I'll give you leaders with authority for about 400 years, but after the Bible is compiled, you are all on your own."
Acts 1:22 - literally, "one must be ordained" to be a witness with us of His resurrection. Apostolic ordination is required in order to teach with Christ's authority.
Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.
Acts 9:17-19 - even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.
Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.
Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church.
Acts 5:13 - the people acknowledged the apostles' special authority and did not dare take it upon themselves.
Acts 15:6,24; 16:4 - the teaching authority is granted to the apostles and their successors. This teaching authority must be traced to the original apostles, or the authority is not sanctioned by Christ.
Rom. 15:16 – Paul says he is a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable. This refers to the ministerial priesthood of the ordained which is distinguishable from the universal priesthood of the laity. Notice the Gentiles are the “sacrifice” and Paul does the “offering.”
1 Cor. 5:3-5; 16:22; 1 Tim. 1:20; Gal 1:8; Matt 18:17 – these verses show the authority of the elders to excommunicate / anathemize ("deliver to satan").
2 Cor. 2:17 - Paul says the elders are not just random peddlers of God's word. They are actually commissioned by God. It is not self-appointed authority.
2 Cor. 3:6 – Paul says that certain men have been qualified by God to be ministers of a New Covenant. This refers to the ministerial priesthood of Christ handed down the ages through sacramental ordination.
2 Cor. 5:20 - Paul says we are "ambassadors" for Christ. This means that the apostles and their successors share an actual participation in Christ's mission, which includes healing, forgiving sins, and confecting the sacraments.
2 Cor. 10:6 – in reference to the ordained, Paul says that they are ready to punish every disobedience. The Church has the authority excommunicate those who disobey her.
I can only claim aunt-hood experience but a lot of it.
What a fitting tribute..
I never knew goats were so loaded with personality.
I forgot this:
The sixth thing a Catholic learns is there is no Pope in the Bible and Peter was not the first Pope.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.