'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 12/4/2006 | John-Henry Westen

[Pyro7480]

'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

By John-Henry Westen

NEW YORK, December 4, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A review of New Line Cinema's The Nativity story by Fr. Angelo Mary Geiger of the Franciscans of the Immaculate in the United States, points out that the film, which opened December 1, misinterprets scripture from a Catholic perspective.

While Fr. Geiger admits that he found the film is "in general, to be a pious and reverential presentation of the Christmas mystery." He adds however, that "not only does the movie get the Virgin Birth wrong, it thoroughly Protestantizes its portrayal of Our Lady."

In Isaiah 7:14 the Bible predicts the coming of the Messiah saying: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Fr. Geiger, in an video blog post, explains that the Catholic Church has taught for over 2000 years that the referenced Scripture showed that Mary would not only conceive the child miraculously, but would give birth to the child miraculously - keeping her physical virginity intact during the birth.

The film, he suggests, in portraying a natural, painful birth of Christ, thus denies the truth of the virginal and miraculous birth of Christ, which, he notes, the Fathers of the Church compared to light passing through glass without breaking it. Fr. Geiger quoted the fourth century St. Augustine on the matter saying. "That same power which brought the body of the young man through closed doors, brought the body of the infant forth from the inviolate womb of the mother."

Fr. Geiger contrasts The Nativity Story with The Passion of the Christ, noting that with the latter, Catholics and Protestants could agree to support it. He suggests, however, that the latter is "a virtual coup against Catholic Mariology".

The characterization of Mary further debases her as Fr. Geiger relates in his review. "Mary in The Nativity lacks depth and stature, and becomes the subject of a treatment on teenage psychology."

Beyond the non-miraculous birth, the biggest let-down for Catholics comes from Director Catherine Hardwicke's own words. Hardwicke explains her rationale in an interview: "We wanted her [Mary] to feel accessible to a young teenager, so she wouldn't seem so far away from their life that it had no meaning for them. I wanted them to see Mary as a girl, as a teenager at first, not perfectly pious from the very first moment. So you see Mary going through stuff with her parents where they say, 'You're going to marry this guy, and these are the rules you have to follow.' Her father is telling her that she's not to have sex with Joseph for a year-and Joseph is standing right there."

Comments Fr. Geiger, "it is rather disconcerting to see Our Blessed Mother portrayed with 'attitude;' asserting herself in a rather anachronistic rebellion against an arranged marriage, choosing her words carefully with her parents, and posing meaningful silences toward those who do not understand her."

Fr. Geiger adds that the film also contains "an overly graphic scene of St. Elizabeth giving birth," which is "just not suitable, in my opinion, for young children to view."

Despite its flaws Fr. Geiger, after viewing the film, also has some good things to say about it. "Today, one must commend any sincere attempt to put Christ back into Christmas, and this film is certainly one of them," he says. "The Nativity Story in no way compares to the masterpiece which is The Passion of the Christ, but it is at least sincere, untainted by cynicism, and a worthy effort by Hollywood to end the prejudice against Christianity in the public square."

And, in addition to a good portrait of St. Joseph, the film offers "at least one cinematic and spiritual triumph" in portraying the Visitation of Mary to St. Elizabeth. "Although the Magnificat is relegated to a kind of epilogue at the movie's end, the meeting between Mary and Elizabeth is otherwise faithful to the scriptures and quite poignant. In a separate scene, the two women experience the concurrent movement of their children in utero and share deeply in each other's joy. I can't think of another piece of celluloid that illustrates the dignity of the unborn child better than this."

See Fr. Geiger's full review here:
http://airmaria.com/

[DungeonMaster]

If you are one who lives by Scripture how is it you can simply reject Scripture when it goes against your ideas?

Words mean things. A lack of words also means things when it comes to the bible. Perhaps you've heard the phrase "Let scripture interpret scripture". That's what us sola scriptura people do. If an interpretation doesn't agree with the rest of the bible, it is no good.

[HarleyD]

Douay translates:

Then were gathered together the chief priests and ancients of the people into the court of the high priest, who was called Caiphas:

This is accurate in the historical context

I see. It is accurate in the historical context but is it accurate in the linguistic context? Not that I can tell. The actual rendering of the verse should be:

Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,

Please note how this was changed in the Douay translation. I am, so far, unclear as if it was changed in the Vulgate. I suspect not since my reference is from the KJV which is based on the Vulgate. This would mean that the Douay translation is poor at best or has some other motive for the way it has altered the scripture.

In the text (Matt 26:3), the word for chief priest is "archiereus", the word for scribe is "grammateus", and for elders "presbuteros". These are three different and distinct groups of people; not lumped together as "ancient of the people". (I'm sure they wouldn't be too happy with that term.)

Reader_David made a valid point that another word is used in scripture for priest but the English word "priest" is derived from the term for "elder, bishop" through "presbuteros". I can understand that logic. However, it creates problems in Titus 1:5 in trying to claim that Paul was talking about "ordaining priests". Priest is only an English derivation of a term-not the actual group of people as Paul is talking about.

[betty boop]

...the members of the body are determined by Christ Himself (John 1,3, 14-17; I Cor 2; Rev 2-3) not by mortal men, doctrines, traditions, etc.

I see it that way, too, my dearest sister in Christ.

[annalex]

I have planted, Apollos watered

Very good. But note how the Church here is like a plant, planted once, watered by many. Protestantism, depsite of course, great many sincere believers, as a movement, was an effort to separate from the root.

[samiam1972]

I like post 4901. Makes sense to me. You have more patience than I do right now. I read through this last page only and am already frustrated with the sola scriptura crowd. I get so tired of these same arguments that have already been settled by the Church, just as it tells us to in scripture.

They demand Scripture, we give it to them (supported by Tradition) and they don't like the interpretation. Round and round it goes. I'll stick with Scripture and Tradition. I love reading about the Early Church Fathers and seeing the Mass so vividly.

[annalex]

The Bible, even the New Testament is a collection of many books each with its own phraseology and historical reference. It describes a very fluid situation, when one religion more or less supplated the other. Naturally, the usage changed, and it continued to change following the closure of the Canon. To mechanically force the same word as translation across books and timeframes is to introduce confusion not intended by either St. Matthew or St. Paul.

In recent time many words changed their meaning or aquired new meanings nearly obscuring the old. Consider "missile" or "to compile" or "gay". If one were to translate "three gay caballeros" with the same foreign word as in "gay marriage", he would not be doing a correct translation either linguistically or historically because he would not be following the intent of the native speaker in at least one case of the two.

"Presbyteros" means both elder/ancient and priest. "Hiereus" means Jewish or pagan priest, and Christian priest only by extension in the contexts such as the letter to the Hebrews. In the context of the trial of Jesus, the archpriest refers to a Jewish hierarch, and "presbyteros" has to refer to some popular leader since there has been no Eucharistic practice yet, and so no Christian priests.

The actual rendering of the verse should be

Fine. All you did is substitute "elder" for "ancient". Both translations correctly avoid "priest" because St. Matthew did not mean either a Christian priest or a Jewish priest; but St. Paul surely did mean a Christian priest in Titus and Timothy, when the Church was functioning.

[BnBlFlag]

See post 4801.

[Blogger]

No it doesn't. And yes, I do object to the interpretation of it. Mary was blessed. This doesn't mean one prays to her.

The woman in Revelation is Israel. Compare with Joseph's dream:
Genesis 37
9And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

10And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?

11And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.

The 11 stars were the 11 tribes of Israel not including Joseph.
The Sun and moon is also associated here with Israel's family.

The Woman that gave birth to the man child in Revelation is not Mary, but Israel. Mary in no way represented all 12 tribes if Israel, but Israel itself gave birth to the man child. Satan has tried to crush Israel since her beginning. He tried to crush the man-child. The woman in Genesis, by your own theology, is also not Mary.

Genesis 3:14-16 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


If this were Mary, according to your theology, verse 16 would never have applied. The woman here was Eve.

There is no scriptural foundation for venerating Mary.

[Blogger]

What a bunch of eisegetical spin! Wagglebee, if that were so, show me one time in all of Scripture where a single apostle even speaks to Mary? There was plenty of opportunity in all of the epistles to discuss what Mary's roll would be. Where is it? Where is a prayer to Mary in Scripture? Where is a prayer to a Saint?

No. We pray to God. No examples of any other kind of prayer.

# Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

1 Peter 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Philemon 1:4
I thank my God, making mention of thee always in my prayers,

2 Timothy 4:16
At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

# 1 Thessalonians 1:2
We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

# Colossians 4:3
Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Romans 15:30
Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

1 Corinthians 11:13
Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

2 Corinthians 13:7
Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

# Philippians 4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

Colossians 1:3
We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

Acts 10:2
A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Acts 10:4
And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Acts 16:25
And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.

# John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

# John 16:26
At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

# Acts 8:24
Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have

1And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

2And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

3Give us day by day our daily bread...

[Mad Dawg]

No, what really confuses me is people telling me a priest is really a bishop but a bishop is not a priest.

It's practice for the advanced classes on the Trinity.

[samiam1972]

We don't pray TO Mary. We ask her to pray FOR us. I'm sure you've heard that before. Please quit stating otherwise.

[annalex]

The Woman that gave birth to the man child in Revelation is not Mary, but Israel

This is a wild mariophobic interpretation. The woman in Apocalypse 12 is described very graphically as giving birth to a child whose name is Christ and with whose disciples satan wages war. That woman is Mary, the messenger to the Twelve Apostles. The woman whose seed crushed the serpent in Gen 3:15 is also Mary. In 3:16 it is obviously Eve as God turns to her in that sentence.

Now, Israel is a type of Mary as naturally Mary is the high point and achievement of the biblical Israel, fulfilling its divine purpose. In fact, in venerating Mary the entire Jewish race is venerated.

Note that the Apocalypse does not mince words describing the enemies of Mary in that chapter. Perhpas veneration of Mary is not in the scripture as directly as to satisfy you. But mariophobia certainly is.

[Mad Dawg]

The verse about the cloud of wittnesses is a verse about the faith of said wittnesses being a testimony to us, not that they are all watching us.

Thanks for that heads-up. I will sho' 'nuff check that puppy.

There is never a bridge between fundies and RC's but we still have fun comparing notes.

I ain't quitting on that account. I may wimp out or get tired or something but I think Jesus can bridge anything that will consent to be bridged - and no I do NOT want to argue about whether that consent is meritorious or not.

[wmfights]

When Matthias takes Judas' Bishopric....And they appointed two, Joseph, called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, To take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place.

What book, chapter and verse is this?

[annalex]

Acts 1:23f

[wmfights]

AUGUSTINE ON SUCCESSION

Clearly you have lost the discussion when you have to refer to theologians, with a vested interest, rather than Scripture. The truth is the Apostles were missionaries, not Bishops, nor did they appoint Bishops in the churches they helped start. Your Theory of Apostolic Succession does not stand on the basis of the Apostles appointing the next generation of leaders. You might have an argument if Ignatius had claimed he was appointed by an Apostle, but he didn't.

The only other avenue available to support your Theory of Apostolic Succession would be in your ordination process. However, if you read Acts 13 you find the Holy Spirit first moves the believers and then the laying on of hands occurs.

[annalex]

Holy Spirit first moves the believers and then the laying on of hands occurs

Of course. Ordination always follows a discerned vocation, never the other way around. So?

[HarleyD]

Naturally, the usage changed, and it continued to change following the closure of the Canon. To mechanically force the same word as translation across books and timeframes is to introduce confusion not intended by either St. Matthew or St. Paul.

I'm not "mechanically" forcing anything. I am simply going back to the original language to see what it states. While I'm not Professor Henry Higgins, I can read and understand linguistic meanings.

In recent time many words changed their meaning or aquired new meanings nearly obscuring the old.

Nonsense. While English words changes, the Greek never does. If it says "elder/bishop" in the Greek, it still means "elder/bishop". You would like me to think that "elder" really means the priest in today's church. Who does the Pope represent? The High Priest? There is nothing to support any of this. All this is based upon a English contortion of a Greek word.

If people cannot figure out the meaning of a word then they can simply look in a dictionary if they're confused. There are many good tools out on the Internet to help one understand. If you wish to take the Greek dialect and manufacture the word "priest" then you can. I don't have a problem with that. After all, the Presbyterians took the same word and called themselves Presbyterians. I doubt if you would agree with that.

Fine. All you did is substitute "elder" for "ancient". Both translations correctly avoid "priest" because St. Matthew did not mean either a Christian priest or a Jewish priest; but St. Paul surely did mean a Christian priest in Titus and Timothy, when the Church was functioning.

I would suggest you're reading far more into this than what is there. If you suppose I wrong then I would suggest the following:
1Ti 4:14 Do not neglect the gift in you, which was given you by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the body of elders.

This verse, following your application, would suggest there are many priests per church laying hands on people. There are other verses just as confusing with your application. For example we know that Peter called himself an "elder" in 1 Peter 5:1, equating himself with all the other elders. This would effectively eliminate the idea of Peter being head of the Church and support wmfights (and my) contention that the early church was locally run under presiding elders.

Paul wasn't talking about "priests" in the Roman Catholic Church. That is a bit of a reach. He was talking about senior members of a church. You can't read anything more into the scriptures than that. Of course, if you want to insist these are priests then you should follow through with the verse:

Tit 1:5-6 For this cause I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed you, if anyone is blameless, husband of one wife, having believing children, not accused of loose behavior, or disobedient.

That puts Catholics in a pickle. Orthodox don't mind saying they have discarded this for greater Church discipline. Are the Catholics willing to say that?

[wmfights]

However, it creates problems in Titus 1:5 in trying to claim that Paul was talking about "ordaining priests".

Paul goes into great detail about the qualities to be looked for in individuals that should be in leadership, but PAUL does not pick the next generation of leaders.

The point being, if the Theory of Apostolic Succession is based on the Apostles picking the next generation of leaders in the church it falls.

Paul explains in Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,..

Ordination, or the laying on of hands occurred AFTER the Holy Spirit had moved and gifted the individual.

[Mad Dawg]

I'm not sure if I understandd the question. But maybe it's relevant to point out that the Cathoic rule about celibacy for clergy is NOT considered doctrine but rather a matter discipline , and one which permits of exceptions. There are, in fact, married Roman Catholic priests, and there are married priests in rites in communion with Rome.