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To: HarleyD; The_Reader_David; wmfights
The Bible, even the New Testament is a collection of many books each with its own phraseology and historical reference. It describes a very fluid situation, when one religion more or less supplated the other. Naturally, the usage changed, and it continued to change following the closure of the Canon. To mechanically force the same word as translation across books and timeframes is to introduce confusion not intended by either St. Matthew or St. Paul.

In recent time many words changed their meaning or aquired new meanings nearly obscuring the old. Consider "missile" or "to compile" or "gay". If one were to translate "three gay caballeros" with the same foreign word as in "gay marriage", he would not be doing a correct translation either linguistically or historically because he would not be following the intent of the native speaker in at least one case of the two.

"Presbyteros" means both elder/ancient and priest. "Hiereus" means Jewish or pagan priest, and Christian priest only by extension in the contexts such as the letter to the Hebrews. In the context of the trial of Jesus, the archpriest refers to a Jewish hierarch, and "presbyteros" has to refer to some popular leader since there has been no Eucharistic practice yet, and so no Christian priests.

The actual rendering of the verse should be

Fine. All you did is substitute "elder" for "ancient". Both translations correctly avoid "priest" because St. Matthew did not mean either a Christian priest or a Jewish priest; but St. Paul surely did mean a Christian priest in Titus and Timothy, when the Church was functioning.

4,926 posted on 01/10/2007 1:40:05 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; The_Reader_David; wmfights
Naturally, the usage changed, and it continued to change following the closure of the Canon. To mechanically force the same word as translation across books and timeframes is to introduce confusion not intended by either St. Matthew or St. Paul.

In recent time many words changed their meaning or aquired new meanings nearly obscuring the old.

Fine. All you did is substitute "elder" for "ancient". Both translations correctly avoid "priest" because St. Matthew did not mean either a Christian priest or a Jewish priest; but St. Paul surely did mean a Christian priest in Titus and Timothy, when the Church was functioning.


4,938 posted on 01/10/2007 4:49:43 PM PST by HarleyD ("...even the one whom He will choose, He will bring near Himself." Num 16:5)
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