PREDESTINATION; LIVE BY GRACE; NOT BY WORKS (WEEK 8)

St. Louis Center for Christian Study ^ | Greg Johnson

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If salvation is all of grace -- if God is God and he has chosen us for salvation even though we did nothing to deserve it -- then we ought to live by the grace we have received. Of course, some of you will look at that and say to yourselves, “Yeah, I really need to do better at living by grace. I’ve really been a failure there. I hope God will forgive me again.” If that’s you, you still don’t get it. Go back and re-read the last seventeen pages and (if you’re a believer) remember that you’re one of the elect!

Our hearts so quickly try to relate to God on a works-basis! It’s our pride, really. I’m convinced that that’s the problem with free-will Arminianism. People naturally process it like this: God requires one work from me, to believe. Once I believe, I’ve done my work and deserve heaven. Of course, in more hard-line Arminian circles, it goes a step further. Unless I’m holy enough, I’ll still go to hell, and maybe I’ve even committed the unpardonable sin and will be damned even if I’m sinlessly perfect from here on out. Legalism. Legalism. Legalism. Such a religion is barely recognizable as Christianity.

But Calvinists can fall into legalism just as easily. You see, I understand predestination. I’m a superior Christian. I’ve got all my theological “t”s crossed and my Reformed “i”s dotted. I sure am close to God. Pride is the Presbyterian’s favorite form of legalism, so watch out! But if God really is for us, and if we had nothing to do with that decision -- if even our faith was given to us by the Father -- then there’s no room for boasting. God’s sovereign choice of us leaves us free from pride. It leaves us aware of our brokenness and humble before God, but all the while confident that his eternal purpose will stand, that we will glory in God forever as objects of his saving mercy. As God’s eternal blessing really begins to sink from our heads into our hearts, we see a new freedom that we never would have imagined when we first encountered the raw, holy, sovereign power of God. Among the newfound freedoms:

1. Freedom from shame, guilt & Insecurity

Read Romans 8:28-39. Nothing can separate you from God’s love -- nothing in the past, nothing in the future. No one can stand against you. No one can accuse you. Even bad things (“all things”) are working right now to your benefit, to make you more like Jesus. God didn’t choose you because of your faith, and Jesus is not ashamed of you—even at your worst (Hebrews 2:11). He’s proud to have you in the family, proud to call you brother or sister -- even knowing what he knows. He’s displaying the glory of his mercy, remember. God’s law is no longer your enemy, but a friend. You can have confidence before God.

2. Freedom from destructive Perfectionism

If God really is for you, then you can quit trying to look good. If you’re trying to be good enough for God, he’s not buying it -- he didn’t choose you because of your great faithfulness. If you’re trying to be good enough for other people, don’t bother. God wants to display his mercy -- that means we have to be broken. God’s glory is not displayed by trying to look like you have it all together. Faith is not a work, and even if it were it still wouldn’t earn you any brownie points. Let God be God. If you won’t show your weakness, then others won’t see God’s power displayed in it.

3. Freedom from legalistic man-made rules

Some of the biggest practical opponents to living by grace are those legalistic little rules that we live by. We love to judge other with them -- they make us look good, and help us feel better about ourselves. (Pride again.) Dress this way, not that way. Wear this much makeup, not that much. Work. Don’t work. Home school is God’s way. Public school is God’s way. Christian school is God’s way. Drink. Don’t drink. Smoke. Don’t smoke. Dance. Don’t dance. This is God’s worship style. If we’re all about God’s glory, there’s no room for any of this. Do whatever you do for God’s glory without comparisons. God has freed you from judging others. You don’t understand God’ sovereign grace until you realize you are a beggar who’s been blessed without cause. You had nothing to do with it -- you’re just a receiver.

4. Freedom from Penance

Even repentance can be a sham if we’re trying to approach God with some vestige of self-reliance. Biblical repentance is a freedom we can enjoy daily, while penance is its counterfeit.

Repentance/Penance

Comes with empty hands/Tries to bargain with God

Acknowledges real sin as against God/Makes excuses for sin

Grieves over displeasing God/Grieves over getting caught

Asks for help to do better/Promises to do better

Is willing to publicly confess, if needed/Is too proud to publicly confess

Relies on God's promises to us/Relies on own promises to God

Turns outward, away from self, to God/Turns inward on self

Produces freedom, joy, and confidence/Produces guilty feelings, anxiety

God has obligated himself to receive any repentant sinner who comes to him. Without this realization, true repentance is impossible. Until we realize that God is for us, we cannot truly be for God.

[adiaireton8]

See my post #135.

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Old threads can be resurrected. Certainly they can be linked to. And of course, bookmarked.

We should meet there again this coming New Year for a one-year anniversary party.

I'll bring an angel food cake. 8~)

[azhenfud]

"So you would tell an apostate-to-be that the 'assurance verses' apply to him."

You seem purposed to twist what I've stated. I repeat I would tell an apostate-to-be that 'assurance verses' apply to him base upon his ACCEPTANCE of the power and gift offered him through Christ to become the sons of God.

I bring to your remembrance Jesus' relay of the wedding feast (Matthew 22) where the invitation to join the banquet was given but many chose to disregard the invite. As was then, the offer is extended to the apostate-to-be, but it's up to them should they choose to squander the invitation. It's the apostate-to-be's choice to be found fit with the right garment or not.

[adiaireton8]

You seem purposed to twist what I've stated.

Not true. I'm going exactly by what you said. You said, "Yes - they do apply".

It seems that what you mean is that since apostates-to-be are not elect, these verses teaching that the elect cannot be lost do not in fact apply to apostates-to-be.

Now if you are saying that the promises in the 'assurance verses' apply to everyone because these promises are *conditional* (i.e. e.g. "If you are elect, then you will not be lost, etc., etc."), then that leaves us right back where we started: How does one know that one is elect? And if you start quoting these 'assurance verses' to answer that question (the very ones you have just said are conditional on whether one is elect), you will have assumed precisely what you are trying show, i.e. you will have "begged the question".

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Therefore, not finding the term 'Sacred Magisterium' in Scripture is not a problem.

The problem arises because Sacred Magisterium is precisely denied in Scripture. There is nothing "sacred" about a group of men who presume to speak for God when they tell other men how to interpret Scripture.

Just like there is nothing "sacred" about one mortal man imagining he has the power to forgive another man's sins.

"Sacred" is the Holy Spirit who speaks through the word of God which tells us all believers are part of His holy priesthood, equal in Christ's victory.

"As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." -- 1 Peter 2:2-10

[adiaireton8]

The problem arises because Sacred Magisterium is precisely denied in Scripture.

Chapter and verse?

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I just gave it to you. A priesthood of believers.

[adiaireton8]

I just gave it to you. A priesthood of believers.

But the Catholic Church also teaches the "priesthood of believers". So obviously the notion of a "priesthood of belivers" is not incompatible with the existence of the Sacred Magisterium.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

Here you go, from the Catholic Catechism:

1268 The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood." By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light." Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.

1546 Christ, high priest and unique mediator, has made of the Church "a kingdom, priests for his God and Father." The whole community of believers is, as such, priestly. The faithful exercise their baptismal priesthood through their participation, each according to his own vocation, in Christ's mission as priest, prophet, and king. Through the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation the faithful are "consecrated to be . . . a holy priesthood."

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

apostates-to-be

You're giving legalism an even worse name here, A8. Apostates-to-be???

All those whom God has predestined to salvation will hear His words, and believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead to prove that He had paid for their sins by atoning personally for every one of them. These are the elect and they will be saved because God has promised in Scripture that Jesus Christ will lose none whom God has given Him to bring home.

A belief in this reality is a sign of one's redemption. It is not a requirement for it because nothing can merit the grace of God. Salvation is a free gift given by God to whom He chooses. It is all of grace, and none of works.

The assurance verses apply to the elect. Since no one but God knows the names of the elect, we are commanded to preach those assurance verses to all nations and races, to every man, woman and child on earth.

Those who are elect, will hear and be comforted.

Those who are not elect will not care one bit about the assurance verses. They will scoff at them; ridicule them; ignore them.

All as God has determined from before the foundation of the world to bring glory to His name.

[Gamecock]

But some are more priestly than others.

[adiaireton8]

You're giving legalism an even worse name here, A8.

How so?

Apostates-to-be???

Since there is no verb in this question, I guess you are asking what I mean by "apostates-to-be"? I mean simply those who seem now to be genuine believers, but who in the future will fall away permanently.

All those whom God has predestined to salvation will hear His words, and believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead to prove that He had paid for their sins by atoning personally for every one of them. These are the elect and they will be saved because God has promised in Scripture that Jesus Christ will lose none whom God has given Him to bring home.

Sure. Call that paragraph "X". But "X" does not answer the question: How does one know that one is elect?

A belief in this reality is a sign of one's redemption.

So, no apostates-to-be believe ever believe "X"? Because if they do, then belief that "X" is not a reliable sign that one is truly redeemed.

It is not a requirement for it because nothing can merit the grace of God. Salvation is a free gift given by God to whom He chooses. It is all of grace, and none of works.

Sure, but that does not answer the question: How does one know that one is elect?

The assurance verses apply to the elect.

Fine. But that still doesn't answer the question: How does one know that one is elect?

Those who are elect, will hear and be comforted. Those who are not elect will not care one bit about the assurance verses. They will scoff at them; ridicule them; ignore them.

Chapter and verse? If you can substantiate this claim, then we can know that if a person ever cares about the assurance verses, that person is elect, even if he becomes a rabid atheist and dies in that condition.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

And . . . . ??

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

But some are more priestly than others.

And some have the "power" to raise a glass of wine and at a certain point in the uplift, by saying a few words, that material grape juice magically turns into the blood of Jesus Christ.

I don't believe that's possible (or even desirable) for any man to do. But A8 divides the "priesthood" into those who can perform this alchemy and those who can't.

So you're right, GC. There seems to be an "Animal Farm" distinction at work here.

[Forest Keeper]

I was wondering what you would pray to a patron saint of lawyers, ...

I'm not sure, but I have heard this one before: :)

Lawyer's Prayer

Our Father, who shall be termed party of the first part, Whose place of
business is in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name.

Thy Kingdom, pursuant to terms and conditions, come. Thy will, duly
uncontested, be done on earth, in so far as existing statutes permit, as it
is in Heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts,
notwithstanding claims, liens and legal costs, as we, who shall be termed
party of the second part, forgive our debtors.

And lead us not into temptation (i.e., sin, corruption, greed, gluttony, etc.),
but deliver us from evil, the nature of which shall be determined by the
Court. For Thine is the Kingdom and the power and, pending appeal, the
Glory forever.

Amen

[adiaireton8]

The point was that nothing about "priesthood of believers" is incompatible with the Sacred Magisterium, and nothing you have said so far shows otherwise.

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

How does one know that one is elect?

Asked and answered numerous times.

Again...

If one possesses Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, that person has a definite confidence he or she is among the elect.

I think you'd do better to argue this point with Arminians who wrongly assume (along with RCs) that a person must do some work in order to be saved.

The Reformed believe that faith is "evidence" of our salvation, not a requirement for it. Therefore, if one possesses Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ, one can rest secure in every verse of Scripture, especially the assurance verses which were written to them by name by God from before the foundation of the world.

[AlbionGirl]

We know of early leaders in the RCC who left and joined other sects, such as Tertullian becoming a Montanist.

In the History of Christianity, Paul Johnson, a Roman Catholic, eminently fair appraiser of History, and a great favorite of mine, calls Tertullian the first Protestant.

He also notes that what really made Tertullian jump over to the Montanist side is that he couldn't abide by the up and coming corraling of the faith, through the clery, who would then, conscript, prescribe, proscribe and finally circumscribe the Holy Spirit. He wasn't going to have any part of that. Not too long before he defected or was declared a heretic, whichever came first, he railed against the woman Montanists who were like some of today's more enthusiastic Pentecostals and sang and prophesied and were generally very demonstrative as regards their faith. When at last he became a Montanist he said he'd never heard a more beautiful sound than these women's same voices and prophesies. Tertullian's writings remain, but many of the so-called heretics' writings were sent down the memory hole, so it's impossible for anyone to know what they really were all about.

From Paul's Enemies of Society book, here's a great quote, which everyone should take to heart, IMO.

Beware of those who seek to win an argument at the expense of the language. For the fact that they do is proof positive that their argument is false, and proof presumptive that they know it is. A man who deliberately inflicts violence on the language will almost certainly inflict violence on human beings if he acquires the power. Those who treasure the meaning of words will treasure truth, and those who bend words to their purposes are very likely in pursuit of anti-social ones. The correct and honourable use of words is the first and natural credential of civilized status.

[AlbionGirl]

That's funny, FK.

[adiaireton8]

I ask: How does one know that one is elect?

You reply: If one possesses Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, that person has a definite confidence he or she is among the elect.

So, if one has faith in Christ, that person can know that he is elect.

But, as you well know, it is not just 'faith' in an unqualified sense, but *true faith*, persevering faith. A mere temporary or faux-faith is not grounds for believing that one is elect.

So, that pushes back the question: How does one know now that one has a faith that will persevere to the end?

-A8