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Changes Coming to Catholic Mass
Los Angeles Times ^ | June 16, 2006 | K. Connie Kang

Posted on 06/16/2006 9:10:47 AM PDT by kellynla

After much prayer and deliberation, the nation's Roman Catholic bishops on Thursday overwhelmingly approved a new English translation for the Mass that will change the prayers tens of millions of American Catholics have recited for more than three decades.

The 173-29 vote of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, meeting in Los Angeles for their spring session, means that American Catholics will soon have to learn slightly different versions of texts that have become second nature.

For instance, at present, when the priest says, "The Lord be with you," the congregation responds, "And also with you." Under the new translation, the response will be, "And also with your spirit."

The new translation conforms to recent Vatican rules designed to make liturgy more accurately reflect the original Latin of the Roman Missal. Thus far, the new English translation has been adopted by bishops in England, Scotland, Australia and Wales.

Bishop Donald Trautman, chairman of the conference's Committee on the Liturgy, called the decision "the most significant liturgical action" to come before the policymaking body in years.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholic; mass
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To: TaxRelief

I'd agree with that.


61 posted on 06/16/2006 10:20:54 AM PDT by Aggie99
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To: Italia222

Your post was sent to the wrong thread.

Please try the keyword "bigots".


62 posted on 06/16/2006 10:22:15 AM PDT by Deo volente
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To: Italia222
"Religion is a waste of time for the weak minded. As a Catholic I know Catholicism is a sham and utterly corrupt "religion." It has no meaning."

Well, thanks for sharing. Since you have it all worked out, perhaps you would share the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. I would be thrilled to know if there is a God, does man have a soul, is there life after death, was Christ the son of God, did he die on the cross for our sins, is there such a thing as sin, did Christ tell Peter he was the rock, did the last supper have any meaning, etc.

Feel free to break it up into several posts if you need to. Explaining the entire purpose of space/time/humanity etc. might take a paragraph or two.
63 posted on 06/16/2006 10:24:41 AM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: Italia222
Religion is a waste of time for the weak minded. As a Catholic I know Catholicism is a sham and utterly corrupt "religion." It has no meaning.

The only response your post warrants is my tagline.
64 posted on 06/16/2006 10:30:30 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: rwa265

Domine non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantem dic verbo et sanabitur anima mea.

I think I got that right.


65 posted on 06/16/2006 10:30:32 AM PDT by Argus
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To: TNCMAXQ
This sound almost like they are going back to some old ways when it comes to some of these responses.

Those are responses that never actually changed in the official Latin text of the Missal. The changes you're thinking of were almost all the result of the original ICEL "translation" (more like "paraphrase" in many spots) of the Latin text.

What this translation is doing is actually trying to translate the Latin accurately into English ... for a change.

66 posted on 06/16/2006 10:33:21 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: TNCMAXQ

Below is when the Priest holds up the Host either over the Chalice or Paten. One line is Latin with the English under it.

Communion of the Faithful

The Priest holds the Host for all to adore.

P: Ecce Agnus Dei, ecce qui tollit peccata mundi.
P: Behold the Lamb of God, behold Him who takes away the sins of the world.

R: Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea. (3 times)
R: Lord, I am not worthy that Thou should come under my roof. But only say the word and my soul will be healed. (3 times)


67 posted on 06/16/2006 10:39:35 AM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed.)
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To: Talking_Mouse
Obviously, I am in the minority here. I love hearing the Mass in the language that I speak. I have been to Latin Masses, and know what is being said when, however I most definitely prefer a Mass in my language.

I dunno that you are in the minority even here. I go to the Latin Mass every week. And I don't have much good to say about the current ICEL English Mass. But I am a strong supporter of English in the liturgy, and I am delighted that Vatican II opened up the Mass in this regard. English *should* be a liturgical language, if only because it is SOO widespread now. Of course, I'd rather see it be the Anglican Use Rite I, rather than ICEL or even this better translation, but that's neither here nor there.

68 posted on 06/16/2006 10:40:42 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Italia222

69 posted on 06/16/2006 10:41:28 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Mexico: America's Palestine)
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To: Talking_Mouse
I know many people on this board want to be able to assist at Mass in Latin and I continue to pray for the Universal Indult so that the Lord can be worshiped joyfully by all His people. I, as a daughter of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, prefer to worship Him in my own language.

I have no problem with this. But let's make sure the words you learn and use at the Mass are an accurate reflection of the intention of the Church (in the Latin original) and not some social experimentation.

Ideally, the Catholic people everywhere should be able to be served in their own language where it is most effective, but also be able to be fluent in the universal Latin parts of the Mass that bind us as One Church. There's no reason all Catholics shouldn't be able to chant the Sanctus or Pater Noster in Latin.

SD

70 posted on 06/16/2006 10:42:19 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Convert from ECUSA

:-]


71 posted on 06/16/2006 10:45:44 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: Aggie99
Catholics also seem to ask for forgiveness a whole lot more than at least Lutheran and Methodist (not being sarcastic here, though it could come off that way) - and this seems to drive people to just go through the words and motions during the service (thank goodness for the little book, by the way, else I'd be lost).

Anything pre-planned can be done by rote and lose its meaning. That is the fault of the churchgoer, not of the service.

We do tend to emphasise where we fail because we want to approach the Sacrament and the Sacrifice only after taking an honest account of our selves. We live out through the Mass the entire human story of sin, repentence and redemption. We tell the whole story, not just the good parts. We don't teach that our actions are irrelevant once we "get saved," so we are naturally more cognizant of our shortcomings and our need to repent and ask forgiveness.

We know forgiveness is to be had if we repent, but we never act like it is owed us. That would be taking it for granted. Our language should reflect our humble and grateful stance at being gifted with the Sacrifice that redeems the world.

As for modern language, I know the Methodists approved recently one communion service that removed the pre-communion "Lord I am worthy for you to enter under my roof..." prayer because the thought it made people feel bad before communion, instead of feeling good about themselves.

Catholics don't go to Church to affirm how good they feel about themselves. They go to affirm that they are unworthy, and only God's Gracious Gift makes us any different.

SD

72 posted on 06/16/2006 10:50:08 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SamAdams_Lite

Shouldn't it be Y'all's spiritS? ;-)


73 posted on 06/16/2006 11:03:32 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: SamAdams_Lite
Those translations flattened. BTW, I attended a Methodist funeral service today, and they had communion. The language is eerily like the New Mass.although the language makes clear that the theology is different. It is my opinion that the translators were trying to get as close to Protestant langauge as they could. Ironically, the intention of the Council fathers was that we should move closer to the Eastern rites. Instead we moved further away.
74 posted on 06/16/2006 11:07:52 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: SoothingDave

-- Catholics don't go to Church to affirm how good they feel about themselves.---

I wish someone would tell that to the music directors and song composers....


75 posted on 06/16/2006 11:10:32 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: SoothingDave

Would like it easiet, would it not when English-speakers and Spanish-speakers go to the same mass? They have a common language of worship.


76 posted on 06/16/2006 11:11:05 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Convert from ECUSA; Italia222

Italia222 worships the Abortion goddess--He thinks 40 million is a good start.


77 posted on 06/16/2006 11:18:27 AM PDT by reagandemocrat
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To: kellynla
The late Pope John Paul II, noticing during his trips around the world that elements of the Mass differed nation by nation and language by language, acted as a catalyst for the renewed translation effort, Roche said.

Does this count as a miracle for Pope John Paul II? - ;)

78 posted on 06/16/2006 11:42:54 AM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM: The perpetual insulting of common sense.)
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To: Italia222
"Religion is a waste of time for the weak minded."

For the weak, the sick, the lame... yep.

"And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
79 posted on 06/16/2006 11:46:16 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: SoothingDave

"Catholics don't go to Church to affirm how good they feel about themselves. They go to affirm that they are unworthy, and only God's Gracious Gift makes us any different."



Any Church that has "making people feel good about themselves" as it's stated or unstated mission is preaching a false Gospel and is a false religion.


Any churchgoer who goes to church with the objective of "feeling better about themselves" is not seeking to know the true and living God.


80 posted on 06/16/2006 11:59:03 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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