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Why Noah's Flood was Local

Posted on 05/29/2006 6:28:25 AM PDT by truthfinder9

I often hear skeptics point to the belief in the global flood as a reason to not believe Christianity. I also see "Christian" creationist groups condem other Christians who believe the local flood is the literal interpretation. It's time we start telling "Christian" groups like ICR and AIG to stop turning people away from the Bible and tell them to stop their childish, immature attacks on other Christians (AIG recently refused to be subject to review, now there's the making of a cult!). And it's time for Christians to stop blindly believing everything they are told, just because it comes from other Christians.

Why the Local Flood is the Literal View


TOPICS: Apologetics; Religion & Science; Skeptics/Seekers; Theology
KEYWORDS: aliaksu; ark; blacksea; blackseaflood; bobballard; catastrophism; creation; danuberiver; design; flood; genesis; godsgravesglyphs; grandcanyon; greatflood; liviugiosan; noah; noahsark; noahsflood; petkodimitrov; richardhiscott; robertballard; science
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1 posted on 05/29/2006 6:28:27 AM PDT by truthfinder9
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To: labette

ping/later


2 posted on 05/29/2006 6:38:52 AM PDT by labette (Through Him all things were made.)
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To: truthfinder9

Crazy so called Christian liberal extremists who don't want to believe in the majority view of the worldwide flood are pushing the jihad against Christians as much as their Muslim friends are pushing the war against the west.


3 posted on 05/29/2006 6:44:58 AM PDT by johna61
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To: johna61

That's because if they can successfully get groups of believers to DISbelieve one of the foundational stories in the Bible, they can systematically destroy the rest of the Bible by instilling doubt and unbelief, thereby removing sin from the world, which removes the need for a savior.


4 posted on 05/29/2006 7:01:26 AM PDT by where HE leads me
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To: truthfinder9
As long as the Flood killed 100% of the land-based population (humans and animals), I don't think it matters if it was local or global.

But size isn't the real issue, isn't it? It's whether there were any survivors besides Noah and his family.

5 posted on 05/29/2006 8:08:50 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:6)
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To: Alex Murphy
You might find this article revealing:

Comets and Disaster in the Bronze Age BRITISH ARCHAEOLOGY, December 1997, No 30, pp. 6-7 The Journal of the Council for British Archaeology

At some time around 2300 BC, give or take a century or two, a large number of the major civilisations of the world collapsed, simultaneously it seems. The Akkadian Empire in Mesopotamia, the Old Kingdom in Egypt, the Early Bronze Age civilisation in Israel, Anatolia and Greece, as well as the Indus Valley civilisation in India, the Hilmand civilisation in Afghanistan and the Hongshan Culture in China - the first urban civilisations in the world - all fell into ruin at more or less the same time. Why?


6 posted on 05/29/2006 8:21:37 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alex Murphy

I think Brother Cloud survived. What is the elevation of Nepal?


7 posted on 05/29/2006 9:36:41 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: where HE leads me
"That's because if they can successfully get groups of believers to DISbelieve one of the foundational stories in the Bible, they can systematically destroy the rest of the Bible by instilling doubt and unbelief, thereby removing sin from the world, which removes the need for a savior."

In times past, what some thought to be "foundational" biblical truths, turned out to be misinterpretations of the Scriptures.

Don't embarrass yourself.

8 posted on 05/29/2006 10:11:47 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ( "History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." -- Dwight Eisenhower)
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To: truthfinder9
Making the Bible more tolerable to the whims of the current age never leads to a greater acceptance of the truths of the Bible in that age.

You are barking up the wrong tree. Let the Bible stand as is it - let it be called unscientific, anti-homosexual, antifemanist, unenlightened, etc. and etc. It will remain long after these other philosophies have died. So will the one who stands in it's shadow.



"The grass withers, the flower fades,but the word of our God will stand forever." - Isaiah 40:8
9 posted on 05/29/2006 10:20:58 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: Matchett-PI; where HE leads me
"In times past, what some thought to be "foundational" biblical truths, turned out to be misinterpretations of the Scriptures."


Hard to misinterpret this...

"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;"

10 posted on 05/29/2006 10:26:40 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Taking the Bible as it is, it IS a story seen from a local point of View. Assuming that Moses is the author, this is the historty of the world as known to him, a descendent of Abraham of Ur.


11 posted on 05/29/2006 10:29:18 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Alex Murphy; truthfinder9
"As long as the Flood killed 100% of the land-based population (humans and animals), I don't think it matters if it was local or global."

# 49

12 posted on 05/29/2006 10:37:59 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ( "History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." -- Dwight Eisenhower)
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To: truthfinder9

I have always assumed that the Bible is stories handed down from generation to generation and translated from language to language. I don't take everything literally.

I don't see how that makes the lessons, morals and customs any less valid or God any less real.


13 posted on 05/29/2006 10:39:02 AM PDT by Poser (Willing to fight for oil)
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To: RobbyS
"Taking the Bible as it is, it IS a story seen from a local point of View."
 

It's clearly a global view...

"The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth
, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was o­nly evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that he had made man o­n the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them." But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD."



"Assuming that Moses is the author, this is the historty of the world as known to him"


Based o­n your assumption, how then would the author of the Torah know any details of events before the creation of man (Gen1)?
14 posted on 05/29/2006 10:52:11 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Assuming Moses was the author, and he is the traditionally the author, he was writing from a particular time and place. He would know what God chose to tell him, and he would understand in accordance with his experience.


15 posted on 05/29/2006 11:00:28 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS
"He would know what God chose to tell him, and he would understand in accordance with his experience."

Then he is not precluded from writing of a universal flood if God had told him about it.

So what is your basis for the claim that, "taking the Bible as it is, it IS a story seen from a local point of View."

???

16 posted on 05/29/2006 11:07:31 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

There is material evidence for a universal flood. In any case, I assume that God spoke to Moses in visions and that Moses understood the past as he understood the future, through a cloud.


17 posted on 05/29/2006 11:20:10 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: truthfinder9

marking to read later.


18 posted on 05/29/2006 11:27:10 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Matchett-PI

I sincerely doubt, in this day and age, that anything is being misinterpreted. And it is for this reason, alone, that there is a need by liberal "Christians" to cast doubt on the interpretations that have been long since proven.

Who needs faith in a Savior when there really is no such thing as sin?


19 posted on 05/29/2006 11:35:32 AM PDT by where HE leads me
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To: PetroniusMaximus; RobbyS; Alex Murphy; truthfinder9
"It's clearly a global view... 'The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was o­nly evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that he had made man o­n the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land...'

Anything I highlighted above stick out atcha?

The Origins Solution by Dick Fischer

Chapter 15

THE FLOOD WATERS ABATE: INTO THE PERSIAN GULF

[huge snip]

Summary

Noah's Flood, recent in occurrence and confined to the Mesopotamian valley and its inhabitants, was retribution for sin, but as Paul states, "Sin is not imputed when there is no law" (Rom. 5:13b). Those civilizations outside the Adamic covenant and outside the immediate area were unaccountable and unaffected by the flood. If we take into consideration the allowable interpretations of "earth" instead of "land," "heaven" rather than "sky," and "mountains" as against "hills," coupled with the Hebrew words "all" and "every" when we would say "much" and "many," plus the Hebrew penchant for perfect or prophetic numbers, we should be able to understand how a Mesopotamian calamity has been misunderstood as a global cataclysm.

The biblical, archaeological, and anthropological evidence corroborates that God spared human populations who were outside the Mesopotamian valley and outside of His covenant. God "winked at" their ignorance (Acts 17:30), but targeted the Adamites in particular, obliterating those who were answerable and willfully disobedient. Evidently the Sumerians were hapless bystanders, many of whom perished, and some may have become proselytes who drowned in the flood.

In Luke, the Pharisees asked Jesus to rebuke His disciples, "And He answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out" (Luke 19:40). The "stones" in the form of inscribed clay tablets are crying out today, confirming God's Word. Are we listening, or are we like the Pharisees?

NOTES [snip]

Anyone interested in reading this whole chapter can let me know and I'll freepmail it to you.

(Also see #12 in this thread)

20 posted on 05/29/2006 11:45:28 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ( "History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid." -- Dwight Eisenhower)
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