Posted on 03/19/2006 6:44:46 PM PST by prairiebreeze
THE Vatican has begun moves to rehabilitate the Crusaders by sponsoring a conference at the weekend that portrays the Crusades as wars fought with the “noble aim” of regaining the Holy Land for Christianity.
The Crusades are seen by many Muslims as acts of violence that have underpinned Western aggression towards the Arab world ever since. Followers of Osama bin Laden claim to be taking part in a latter-day “jihad against the Jews and Crusaders”.
The late Pope John Paul II sought to achieve Muslim- Christian reconciliation by asking “pardon” for the Crusades during the 2000 Millennium celebrations. But John Paul’s apologies for the past “errors of the Church” — including the Inquisition and anti-Semitism — irritated some Vatican conservatives. According to Vatican insiders, the dissenters included Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.
Pope Benedict reached out to Muslims and Jews after his election and called for dialogue. However, the Pope, who is due to visit Turkey in November, has in the past suggested that Turkey’s Muslim culture is at variance with Europe’s Christian roots.
At the conference, held at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University, Roberto De Mattei, an Italian historian, recalled that the Crusades were “a response to the Muslim invasion of Christian lands and the Muslim devastation of the Holy Places”.
“The debate has been reopened,” La Stampa said. Professor De Mattei noted that the desecration of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem by Muslim forces in 1009 had helped to provoke the First Crusade at the end of the 11th century, called by Pope Urban II.
He said that the Crusaders were “martyrs” who had “sacrificed their lives for the faith”. He was backed by Jonathan Riley-Smith, Dixie Professor of Ecclesiastical History at Cambridge University, who said that those who sought forgiveness for the Crusades “do not know their history”. Professor Riley-Smith has attacked Sir Ridley Scott’s recent film Kingdom of Heaven, starring Orlando Bloom, as “utter nonsense”.
Professor Riley-Smith said that the script, like much writing on the Crusades, was “historically inaccurate. It depicts the Muslims as civilised and the Crusaders as barbarians. It has nothing to do with reality.” It fuels Islamic fundamentalism by propagating “Osama bin Laden’s version of history”.
He said that the Crusaders were sometimes undisciplined and capable of acts of great cruelty. But the same was true of Muslims and of troops in “all ideological wars”. Some of the Crusaders’ worst excesses were against Orthodox Christians or heretics — as in the sack of Constantinople in 1204.
The American writer Robert Spencer, author of A Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, told the conference that the mistaken view had taken hold in the West as well as the Arab world that the Crusades were “an unprovoked attack by Europe on the Islamic world”. In reality, however, Christians had been persecuted after the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem.
CONFLICT OVER THE HOLY LAND
Historians count eight Crusades, although dates are disputed: 1095-1101, called by Pope Urban II; 1145-47, led by Louis VII; 1188-92, led by Richard I; 1204, which included the sack of Constantinople; 1217, which included the conquest of Damietta; 1228-29 led by Frederick II; 1249-52, led by King Louis IX of France; and 1270, also under Louis IX
Until the early 11th century, Christians, Jews and Muslims coexisted under Muslim rule in the Holy Land. After growing friction, the first Crusade was sparked by ambushes of Christian pilgrims going to Jerusalem. The Byzantine Emperor Alexius appealed to Pope Urban II, who in 1095 called on Christendom to take up arms to free the Holy Land from the “Muslim infidel”
I'm sorry, but the historical details I mentioned are true. I'm not saying that the Jews deserved to get kicked out of Spain. I'm saying that they got caught in the middle of a war to the death between the Spanish and the Moors.
It was by no means evident at the time which side would win that war. Constantinople fell in 1453, the Siege of Vienna was in 1529, when it looked as if all of Europe might be lost to the Turks, the Battle of Lepanto was in 1571, and it was not until then or even later that Christian Europe won naval superiority in the Mediterranean. Perhaps the Spanish were entirely wrong to expel the Jews, but that was their basic reason.
This world would be a better place if the Crusades had succeeded.
What is your source for this?
Ping to read later. If the above is true (and I'm not sure it is), JPII's esteem just lost a couple dozen points in my estimation...
"The Crusades were prior to the Muslim forays into Europe."
From whence comes your information? Osama Bin Laden?
Check out: www.crisismagazine.com/april 202/cover.htm
Without reading your link, I was wrong about the Moors of Spain (Berbers bascially). I didn't realize they conquered most of Spain so early. But the Balkans came after the Crusades.
Could be. I'll have to check that out.
They did consumate their marriage and had other children (Matt 13:55-56). It was before they were married that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.(Matt 1:18-20)
You state in your first sentence that that Cicero's version was rare because it was nonsense. To cavalierly dismiss something that may contain some truths could make it much more likely that the same type of pain,thievery,ill treatment and worse will occur again.
Crusades chronology and this doesn't include battles since the ending date in the chronology such as the battle of Lepanto (mentioned above in my earlier post.
One could say the battle continues today...
Do you also believe, as some people do, that the Jews in Germany brought the nazi anger upon themselves because they were "hording all the money"? Do you also believe that there is a "Jewish lobby" or "neo-cons" who are controlling the U.S. government and forced us into the Iraq war? Do you also believe that the U.S. needs to look into a mirror and figure out how we caused 9/11? Is murder somehow always partly the victims' fault? Or is it the case sometimes in history that evil acts occur because of evil people or an evil movement, and the victims are innocent?
***All of Europe and the world can thank the Catholic Church and personally Pope Pius V for saving them from the grip of Islamic rule since 1571. ****
God allowed the Catholics to destroy the might of the Ottomans.
But when they declared a crusade against England in 1588, they had their butts handed to them by the english protestants.
I second your post, and say BRAVO to the Church!
***The Crusades where prior to the Muslim forays into Europe.***
Where did you get that? At a Government school?
The battle of TOURS (Poictiers)was fought in 732AD in France not far from Paris. Invading moslems vs Charles Martel! Charles won.
600s AD Moslems swept cacross Christian lands and up into Spain.
732 AD Tours.
The Moslems invaded and sacked Rome in the 700s AD.
Moslems captured Sicily.
And in the East Moslems were killing their way into Chrisian Syria and Anatolia.
Then swept in the Moslem TURKs who blocked all Christian traffic to Jerusalem and destroyed the Christian shrines everywhere.
One of Islam's greatest leaders was ABU BEKR. The first Syrian city he conquered was Bosra. A man named Romanus was the leader of this city. The invaders caused him to say these words,
"I deny Him that was crucified, and whosoever worships him. I choose God(Allah) for my Lord, Islam for my faith, Mecca for my temple, the Moslems for my bretheren, and Mohammed for my prophet."...The History of Nations by Lodge
And yes,I believe that the United States should take a good look in the mirror regards 9/11 and should have been looking there after Waco,the first attack on the WTC,Oklahoma City,TWA-flight 800, Air Egypt,Swiss Air,Ron Brown's ill fated flight,Vince Foster's suicide,etc.. Looking at facts,seeking the truth of matters is something we all can and should do. Unfortunate,unforeseen events will always occur and innocents will be hurt and will die,we are imperfect people living in an imperfect world. However,getting to the truth of what actually happened is the best insurance policy we have regards preventing future catastrophes.
The Crusades was about putting the Muslims back in their own countries again after they tried to take over the world.
I think someone from the cult of Islam will be setting a bomb off eventually at the Vatican and they for Muslims all hell will break loose, starting with 1.3 pissed of Catholics world wide.
"The doctrine is generally not shared by either Eastern Orthodoxy or by Protestantism."
"The Orthodox church does not accept the Catholic dogma of 1854 -- the dogma of the immaculate conception of the Virgin, in the sense that she was exempt at birth from original sin. This would separate her from the human race, and she would then have been unable to transmit to her Son humanity. But Orthodoxy does not admit in the all-pure Virgin any individual sin, for that would be unworthy of the dignity of the Mother of God." Sergius Bulgakov, The Orthodox Church. Crestwood: St Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1997.
Agree.
These people live in the past; and only where it suits them.
Rightly or otherwise. . .I see the Islamic mosques 'rising' here on our landscape; and can only think of the lessons of the 'trojan horse'.
Oh wow!
Every "historical" program I have seen on the "History" channel has had serious slants and agendas, to the point that I am convinced that certain oil-producing countries underwrite them.
The usual technique is simply to leave out essential parts, and to bow to the politically correct view of Islam. I no longer bother to watch.
Try reading. The literature is rich with history not bought and paid for.
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