The Holy Trinity

3/19/06 | Carl Eldredge

[whispering out loud]

This is something God showed me through the scriptures, which has really helped me to understand who God is, in all of is person. Firstly we know that God is three in his manifestation through God the Father, Jesus the Son, the Holy Spirit. We also know that God is one, Jesus said in his word “The Father and I are one”, He also said, “If you’ve seen me, you’ve also seen my father who is in heaven”. So God is three, and God is one, how can this be?

God helped me to understand this first by helping me understand that man is a three fold being, being body mind and spirit. Our mind being the controlling unit, it is our mind that bids us to do the things we do. Our body is the physical action part of our being we can do no physical action apart from our bodies, no mater how hard our mind wills it. Our spirit is our essence, it is the eternal part of us, as well as the part that ministers to and comforts others. Each of these three parts having their own individual functions, work together to accomplish the same goal.

Secondly God helped me to remember that we are created in the image and likeness of this same God. That being said God the Father is the mind, “the controlling unit” God (the trinity) does nothing apart from the will of the Father, see John 5:30, and Matt 26:42. Just as God the Father is the mind, Jesus is the body. He is the action part of God no physical action took place ever without Him. Even in creation he was present, in John chapter 1 He was called the word, and it was said that nothing was created without him. In Genesis and the creation account, God spoke the world into existence we speak words. Jesus was the words God spoke in the creation of the world making him the action part of creation. Jesus was also the action part of salvation apart from his death and resurrection we would have no hope of salvation. The Holy Spirit is somewhat self explanatory, he is the essence of God Jesus called him the comforter. Also present in the creation, Genesis 1:2 says, “The spirit of God moved upon the faces of the waters”.

Putting this together, The Trinity of God is three parts of one God, each having their own function yet working together to complete one divine purpose. The trinity was present in creation in all of its members, and the trinity is in full effect today. I hope this helps you as much as it helped me when God showed me. Just a little extra something for you, and this one’s free. We know that God cannot lie it is against His nature, but some food for thought. God’s word is so powerful that even if He could lie, the moment it left his lips, it would become truth. So even if he could lie, he still couldn’t lie.

[JohnnyM]

Read the New Testament.

You'll see that 'temple' is used for a physical building whereas 'tabernacle' is used of the body

John 2
19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.


1 Cor 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

JM

[Eagle Eye]

Do you realize that the KJV was written in 1611 and word use has changed somewhat since then?

Did you bother to read the Strong's definition of the greek word translated 'worship'?

It means to kiss out of love, respect, etc.

He showed up and they kissed his feet.

I go someplaces and they kiss my butt out of respect and a desire to stay in my good graces. Yes, they are worshipping me, but it isn't idolotry!!!

[Eagle Eye]

Ha! I looked for those and missed them. My bad.

My mistake doesn't change the truths of God's word.

[AnalogReigns]

The theological term of one person having three roles to play (like you are a husband, father and son) is called "modalism." It was condemned early in church history (before even the rise of the Roman centered church) as a heretical view of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is one is essence, and three in persons, not one person who plays three roles. Otherwise Jesus could not pray to the Father, nor could He send the Holy Spirit after He ascended into Heaven.

And by the way....ALL the words we use "found" in the bible are TRANSLATIONS, and as such do not EXACTLY mean what the original inspired text means. This is why serious bible scholars must study Hebrew and Greek. Hence, NONE of our English words are found in the bible...they are English meanings for the meanings of words actually there.

There are all kinds of terms "made up by men" (biblically faithful Christians, usually) as a shortcut terms for ideas present in the bible. The word "trinity" was coined by faithful Christians for the concept clearly taught in scripture as God being one in essence and also three in persons.

As much as can be understood of this mysterious concept was hammered out by our historical Christian forebearers: The Father is not the Son and the Father is not the Spirit; but the Father is God. The Son is not the Father, the Son is not the Spirit; but the Son is God. The Spirit is not the Father, the Spirit is not the Son; but the Spirit is God. This concept of God, uniquely Christian, cannot be fully understood or explained rationally, only certain truths to it can be understood...the rest is mystery, yet to be accepted by all Christians.

The article above too, while a good try, falls short (as any explanation must) of describing the the trinitarian nature of God. As finite beings, our body, mind and spirit all had a beginning...God does not. Our spirit too is not everywhere all the time. God is. Our knowlege and awareness is extremely limited...God's is not. Better to accept that God is one and God is 3 persons, then to try to explain it...no matter how you try, your explanation will miss the mark.

Here is the classic illustration (attempting) to (partly) explain the trinitarian nature of God:

I must admit, when I hear the (usually somewhat lazy) interpretive technique of "God told me" explanations of complex concepts in the bible (and none is more complex than the concept of the Trinity) I too get suspicious. God gave us each a mind, and expects us to use it--filled and guided with the Holy Spirit, yes, but not breezily spouting "God showed me," instead of intensely studying scripture, our only absolute authority, and what other Christians have discovered too. With the exception of specific visions, that kind of attitude is NEVER found in biblical authors, as far as I can see.

[AnalogReigns]

Trinity is an ultimate test of orthodoxy. The Church of Jesus Christ, in all its various divisions, has ALWAYS believed in the triune nature of God, as it is taught all over the scriptures, for anyone with open eyes to see. The prologue of John is enough, in and of itself, to refute all your heretical arguments.

Face it, 99.9% of those who name themselves Christians, do today, and throughout history, believe in the Trinity of God. It's a free country, so you can disagree, but please, don't claim the name "Christian" it's not yours to use by right.

Yours is a modern form of Arianism. If you don't know what that means, look it up--you'll agree with it.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

"trinity" is the ultimate form of "God told me" theology.

[Eagle Eye]

Face it, 99.9% of those who name themselves Christians, do today, and throughout history, believe in the Trinity of God.

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

9% or 99%...it doesn't matter to me. I don't do what I do for men's approval, nor to avoid men's labels.

Your chart, while interesting, still shows God as being the son which is clearly wrong.

Arius was closer to the truth than you are.

John's verses are prooftext, not proof of God the Son. It isn't all that difficult to explain that set of verses, but why should we look at that when we should be looking at fundamental issues from extremely clear, unambiguous texts?

As I've stated before those who worship the trinity must ignore or twist perfectly clear texts and fundamental concepts of who Jesus and God are. You try to muddy the waters a bit, but you still say that God is three, when the Bible clearly states that He is one.

So, I'll believe what the Bible says that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God Almighty instead of what you say.

[Eagle Eye]

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:


1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


These verses summarize it all right here.

The word "in" means in, totally in, as inside a room or circle, no part not out of the boundaries.

I believe and confess (homologeo) that Jesus Christ came from God "in" the flesh (one mediator between man and God, the MAN christ Jesus).

To believe that Jesus was all or part God means that he wasn't totally flesh. None of this 'total man, total God' malarky. Jesus either came in the flesh or he didn't.

Funny that John felt the need to write these things....it is evident that baalism had already infiltrated the Church before the end of the first century.

This thread has 'tried the spirits' and shown who believes that Jesus was God the Son and those who believe the Jesus was the Son of God.

[Thinkin' Gal]

Face it, 99.9% of those who name themselves Christians, do today, and throughout history, believe in the Trinity of God.

Majority doesn't rule and percentages (hyperbolic or not) are no replacement for truth.

Matthew 7:13-15

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Truth was/is crucified at the place of the poll.

John 19:17-18
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.

1115 Golgotha {gol-goth-ah'}
of Aramaic origin [cf 01538];; n pr loc
AV - Golgotha 3; 3

Golgotha = "skull"
1) the name of a place outside Jerusalem where Jesus was crucified;
so called, apparently because its form resembled a skull

of Aramaic origin [cf 01538]

01538 gulgoleth {gul-go'-leth}
by reduplication from 01556; TWOT - 353l; n f
AV - poll 7, scull 2, every man 2, head 1; 12

1) head, poll, skull
1a) skull
1b) head, poll (of census)

[Thinkin' Gal]

complex concepts in the bible (and none is more complex than the concept of the Trinity)

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Little children understand that 1 is not 3. It takes an expert manipulator to deconstruct the plain understanding, or a deceiver to trick them into dividing each side by zero.

And that graphic... is, is not, is, is not, is, is not

Reminds me of

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[JohnnyM]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
...
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Would little children read this as the Word was God and became flesh, as is clearly written, or would they need a teacher to tell them that it means something else?

JM

[Eagle Eye]

Children in Sunday school can easily tell you that Jesus is the only begotten son of God.

They can easily tell you that God is the Father of Jesus Christ.

What they can't explain, is how Jesus is God, God is God, the Holy Spirit is God and with three you have one.

Kids can't explain that.

But they can understand that there is one God and one mediator between God and men the MAN Christ Jesus.

Wow...the Bible calls Jesus a man yet you call him God. Who should we believe?

[Eagle Eye]

Funny how you demand that we answer your questions but you won't answer how if Jesus is God and God is invisible, then who saw Jesus?

Or if Jesus was God, then was God really dead for three days and three nights?

Or since God is not man...and Jesus is a man...how can Jesus be God the Son?

[JohnnyM]

Jesus was fully man. I don't have issue with the passages that speak to Jesus' humanity. They say He was a man and I believe it. I also don't have a problem the verses that call Jesus God, because He was fully God.

John 1 is a prime example of Jesus being equated with God that any child can understand. This passage poses no problem with those who believe in the Trinity or the deity of Jesus Christ, but must be explained away by those whose theology it doesn't fit with.

JM

[tenn2005]

"Funny how you demand that we answer your questions but you won't answer how if Jesus is God and God is invisible, then who saw Jesus?

Or if Jesus was God, then was God really dead for three days and three nights?

Or since God is not man...and Jesus is a man...how can Jesus be God the Son?"

With a little Bible Study you could answer these questions for yourself.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

They can't explain it. Catholics will usually end the debate by saying "its a mystery". Prots will act like they understand it. lol.

[Eagle Eye]

Go look at #65.

Even Jesus cannot be 'fully' human and 'fully' God.

He either came fully in the flesh or he didn't.

God is spirt. Jesus is flesh.

John doesn't say that those that are of God confess that Jesus was fully man and fully God; he says that the test is who confessed that Jesus was fully flesh.

You are proving that trinitarians CANNOT explain their doctrine without inventing nonbiblican terms and concepts, without ignoring pesky scriptures and verses, and without simply perverting truth.

Yet I can fully explain from the Bible that Jesus Christ is the only begottend son of God who lived to fullfill the law, died for full payment of our sins, was in the grave three days and three nights, was raised by God, ascended to the right hand of God, mediates between men and God, and will someday return to save his believers and execute justice on the rest.

Got any problems with that?

[Eagle Eye]

With a little Bible Study you could answer these questions for yourself.

You are the one lacking answers, not me.

[Eagle Eye]

Cop outs and lies.

Pretty much the state of religion, yesterday as well as today.

When Jesus was walking the Earth his greatest opponents were the religious leaders of his day. Why should we expect that to have changed?

[JohnnyM]

"Funny how you demand that we answer your questions but you won't answer how if Jesus is God and God is invisible, then who saw Jesus?"

The short answer is:
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

John 14
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God. When we look at Jesus Christ, we are looking at God. Jesus Christ is the physical, visible manifestation of the Godhead. He is God in the Flesh. No one has seen God the Father, but they have seen God the Son. That is who was in the Garden with Adam and Eve. That is who supped with Abraham. That is who Isaiah saw sitting on the throne.

For those who believe in the Trinity and the deity of Christ, these passages of Scripture make total sense and need no fancy interpretations.

Or if Jesus was God, then was God really dead for three days and three nights?

Jesus died in the flesh on calvary's Cross. He died a physical death and I would even say for those 3 hours or so that He was on the Cross, that He was separated from His Father. His Spirit did not die on the Cross, His Divine self or nature did not die on the Cross, but his physical, fleshly body did. Remember in John where He told the pharisees that He would raise the temple in three days. A dead person cannot raise themself, but a Divine being sure can.

Or since God is not man...and Jesus is a man...how can Jesus be God the Son?

God the Father is not a man, by God the Son is. Jesus is fully God and fully man.

JM