Posted on 01/17/2006 3:55:48 PM PST by annalex
Here is something on the "treasure of merits" that we wanted to discuss.
Offeratory box cha-ching ping.
BTTT. One of my sons was just asking me about this the other day, and I know my explanation wasn't as clear as it could have been (on a better day ...).
I'll have him read this article.
well-written article - thank you for posting it.
Once again, I believe the most Orthodox response would be to ignore postings such as this one.
Kolokotronis informed me that because of a personal circumstance involving travel he will delay his response. He is one who suggested this topic for discussion. In my experience, the Orthodox postings have been a model of intellectual probity and penetration, both when we, Catholics, see eye to eye, which is most everytime, and when we do not.
Thank you for the quote.
Spices were burnt on behalf of the deceased Kings of Judah (Jeremiah 34:5).
I wonder why. Probably just nonsense.
"Thank you for the quote."
So how do you think that quote bears upon the articles presupposition that there are two punishments for sin (eternal & temporal) we must deal with before we are fully clean?
If full cleansing & forginess required indulgences (or the "punishment" indulgences supposedly pay for) then how could the verse claim that we can obtain full forgivness and full purification though simply confessing our sins?
"I wonder why."
Why do you think?
Good article about a frequently misunderstood topic.
One thing that I think comes through particularly clearly in this is the Catholic concept of the saints (and not only the "officially" canonized) and the souls in Purgatory as being still part of the community of believers, in their new and different way after death.
VERY frequently misunderstood. Any time the archbishop gives a blessing with a plenary indulgence attached, he explains the conditions. We should all know the conditions.
I think you're constructing a contradiction where none exists. It says "if we confess, then we will be fully purified," but it doesn't tell you how that purification will take place or what can make it happen more expeditiously.
To put it in concrete terms, anyone who dies having confessed all mortal sins goes to heaven. If necessary, they are cleansed in purgatory (if not before they die). Therefore, anyone who confesses is cleansed. No indulgences are required, but that's not the same thing as saying that they aren't helpful.
The cited verse is not inconsistent with Catholic doctrine at all.
Yawn. Forgiveness does not require indulgencies. Read the damn article.
"Yawn. Forgiveness does not require indulgencies. Read the damn article."
But, in Catholic thinking, are not indulgences (or suffering) required for purification from all unrighteousness?
Folks get misdirected by the word "indulgence" which seems to mean something naughty.
Translated into evangenglish: An indulgence is a blessing that comes from God that has a powerful effect upon the person who recieves it.
To get this blessing the person must want to be closer to God and do something that brings Him closer, such as reading and meditating on the Scriptures or saying the Lord's prayer with devotion.
It is impossible to buy or trade these blessings as they come from God.
These blessings from God will not make up for unrepented sins. They will not spare you hell if you haven't surrendered to the Lordship of Christ. They will not earn you a higher level of heaven. They will help to bring you closer to the Lord and make you more like Him.
There is a little book that contains recommendations of proven things you can do to be closer to Christ in your walk with Him. This little book contains such ideas as:
+Memorize verses of Scripture and call them to mind throughout the day while doing your daily work
+Fast from something good and pleasing with a spirit of rejection of sin
+Devote yourself to compassionate service to those in need
+Teach or study Christian doctrine
+Begin your day with prayer
+Go on a retreat
+Spend time talking with the Lord
+Go hear a preacher or a mission
+Go to a brief mini-retreat each month
+Spend at least a half hour reading the Scriptures
+Recall your day and pray each night before bed
+Renew your baptismal promises
The book also has many recommended prayers for many different circumstances.
This book is called The Handbook of Indulgences (Enchiridion Indulgentiarum) published by the Catholic Church.
To remove sin and its after-effects requires several things. First, friendship with God must be restored, and amends must be made for offending his wisdom and goodness: this is done by a sincere conversion of mind in a good confession to a priest. Confession removes the guilt of sin, and also removes any condemnation to eternal punishment (if mortal sin was committed).But what about the weakness in my soul, and the damage I did to God’s creation? How are they to be removed? Confession does not do it. Pope Paul teaches that there are two ways:
“The first is by freely making reparation, which involves punishment. The second is by accepting the punishments God’s wisdom has appointed. . . . The very fact that punishment for sin exists, and that it is so severe, make it possible for us to understand how foolish and malicious sin is, and how harmful its consequences are.”
The souls who are now in purgatory are those “who died in the charity of God, were truly repentant, but who had not made satisfaction with adequate penance for their sins and omissions.”
The single most inexplicable and corruptive tenet of Catholicism through the ages.
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