Mormon missionary shot and killed in Chesapeake, Virginia

The Virginian Pilot ^ | 1/2/2005 | Jim Washington

[gregwest]

CHESAPEAKE - A 21-year-old Mormon missionary died Monday night after he and his partner were shot while going door-to-door in the Deep Creek area.

The other missionary, age 19, was in serious condition at Sentara Norfolk General Hospital Monday night, Chesapeake police said.

Police did not release the victims’ identities.

According to police the two missionaries were walking in the 2600 block of Elkhart Street off George Washington Highway about 6 p.m. when they were approached by another man. The man shot them both and fled on foot.

One of the victims ran to The Charity House, a nearby nursing home, to seek help.

Police described the suspect as a black male, about 5’10’’ wearing a black hooded sweatshirt and jeans. He was last seen heading toward Janice Lynn Court, which backs up to Elkhart.

The two missionaries had bicycles, but were not riding them at the time.

A group from the Mormon church, known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, waited in the consultation room at the Norfolk General emergency room Monday night. They declined to comment.

According to the church’s official web site there are more than 60,000 Mormon missionaries, mostly young men and women who volunteer to spread the church’s message for one and a half to two years all over the world, at their own expense.

There are apartment buildings at the end of Elkhart Street, and some residents could not leave or return to their homes for a time Monday night.

Police, working in a moderate rain, had the street blocked off a short way off George Washington Highway.

“This is close to home,’’ said resident Bobby Gatling. He has lived on the block for two years. “Nothing like this has ever happened here before.’’

Anyone with information about this incident is asked to call the Crime Line at 1-888-LOCK-U-UP.

Reach Jim Washington at (757) 446-2536 or jim.washington@pilot online.com.

[MikefromOhio]

I don't care whether the guy was Mormon or a devil-worshipper.

People can debate beliefs (or exchange ideas or whatever they want to call it) on another thread.....it's disrespectful to do so on the thread where the young men involved are either dead or seriously wounded.


I've been back since last January. :)

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Now that one, isn't my argument. I just have the history at my fingertips.

And I don't argue religion on threads that were started to discuss and pray about the senseless attack on two young men.

I'm not a religious indiferentist - I have strong beliefs, and they aren't mormon. I just don't do it under these circumstances.

[Doohickey]

Huh. Why do you suppose they take a sacrament, then?

[Californiajones]

You know, the book of Hebrews says that when a man dies, it is only then that what he believes comes into force.

So, in a metaphysical sense, it is appropriate to discuss what this man believed when he was shot and killed.

When a Christian dies in Iraq, we all think about what him in terms of that. When a Muslim dies -- we all wonder if he really believed that 72 virgin hooey.

And so, it seemed very appropriate to think upon what this young Mormon man believed and what he was doing -- proselytizing -- when he was shot.

Now, if there were grieving family members on this news story thread -- which would be illogical because if they were grieving they wouldn't have time to be on this thread -- I'd say you are right to declare open discussion verboten.

But -- this is FR. I am only naturally curious: did that young man really believe all the Mormon teachings? Did he believe he'd inherit his own planet and hundreds of wives in the afterlife? Because if he did, it sheds light on the life he led here. If I were a guy, Mormonism might have more appeal for me, I suppose.

[ScratchHatch]

"I am only naturally curious: did that young man really believe all the Mormon teachings? Did he believe he'd inherit his own planet and hundreds of wives in the afterlife?"

To answer your first question, I'm guessing (although obviously not certain, but based on his actions) that yes, he believed Mormon teachings. To answer your second question, the answer is no, unless of course he had somehow been exposed exclusively to anti-mormon rhetoric and didn't know actual mormon teachings, as seems to apply to you, but I'm guessing that's not the case.

[Adam-ondi-Ahman]

There are differences between Christian and Mormon belief.

You are correct. Now, why is that? We content that we have received modern revelation to clarify the truth, via living prophets and additional scripture.

For example, we know that Satan (known as Lucifer in the pre-mortal world) was our brother because of clarifying revelation. But the Bible does allude to this:

Isaiah 14:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations.

[Californiajones]

So what are the "actual Mormon teachings" as opposed to the "anti Mormon rhetoric" regarding wives, personal planets, and the afterlife for men?

Let's finish this right: so what are the actual teachings on the holy undergarments, the secrecy of male only rituals in the Temple, the meaning of the sacred symbols on the underwear, the real 19th Century teachings on blacks and sinfulness of their skin color, the real teaching on bigamy, the 1859 insurrection as Brigham Young wanted to make war on the United States -- geez louise -- I could go on and on. And I haven't thought about this stuff in years. Mormonism too boring and culturebound by the 19th Century and dysfunctional if you want to live a real Christian life -- the abundant life He promised us.

[Adam-ondi-Ahman]

Words we claim come from God Himself:

3 And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible.

4 But thus saith the Lord God: O fools, they shall have a Bible; and it shall proceed forth from the Jews, mine ancient covenant people. And what thank they the Jews for the Bible which they receive from them? Yea, what do the Gentiles mean? Do they remember the travails, and the labors, and the pains of the Jews, and their diligence unto me, in bringing forth salvation unto the Gentiles?

...

6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

...

10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

[Californiajones]

"For example, we know that Satan (known as Lucifer in the pre-mortal world) was our brother because of clarifying revelation."

Wow. Now, how can an angel be your brother when, as Paul says, we are to judge angels?

Thanks for spelling it out for us. Scary weird stuff, this Mormonism.

[Californiajones]

The Book of Mormon can only be judged by the standard of the Bible.

Not the other way around.

So, do it if you are a real Christian. I'll listen.

[Adam-ondi-Ahman]

Scary weird stuff, this Mormonism.

Yes, and the Jews thought it was "scary, weird stuff" when Jesus said that He was the bread and the wine that we needed to eat/drink in order to be saved. And that he was the great I AM, and that he would rise again, and that if this temple were to be torn down, it would rise again in 3 days.

It was also weird that he would heal on the Sabbath, forgive peoples' sins, say that a man must be born again, and that the Law of Moses was fulfilled and replaced by a higher law.

I haven't seen a firm proof from you yet from the Bible that discredits any doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Please give me your arguments of from where Satan came and how he came to be.

[Adam-ondi-Ahman]

I'm not trying to be rude or anything with the following question, and would like to ask that we take a mature, loving and humble tone on this thread.

The Book of Mormon can only be judged by the standard of the Bible.

Please clarify this "standard".

I have found nothing in the Book of Mormon that discredits the Bible, but only things that support and prove the truths in the Bible. What have you found contrary to this when you read the Book of Mormon?

[Californiajones]

I believe it is in Romans, where Paul tells us that every word of God is pure and every man a liar. So this is the standard set forth in the first century by Paul. Not the 19th Century when the Book of Mormon was written -- or in the case of Islam --- the 5th Century (when the Koran was written).

I have already pointed out numerous inconsistencies with Mormonism and the Bible.

The Bible, again, says that we cannot add to the Word of God.

The Bible also says we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our Testimony. And we overcome --- by overcoming our sin nature by the power of the Holy Spirit.

So, how does, for instance, wearing holy underwear, align with the Bible? And why didn't the disciples have to wear those things?

[Spiff]

So, how does, for instance, wearing holy underwear, align with the Bible?

How does driving your car to Church on Sunday align with the Bible?

[Californiajones]

"So, how does, for instance, wearing holy underwear, align with the Bible?
How does driving your car to Church on Sunday align with the Bible?"

Apples and oranges.

The car gets me to the church.

But the sacred undies don't make you more holy.

[JRochelle]

I could walk to church. Wearing Hanes. Or Fruit of the Loom. Or none at all. Doesn't matter at my church. Cause what kind of underwear I have on really doesn't matter.

[Quester]

"There are differences between Christian and Mormon belief."

Frankly, I don't care (too much) if you don't think I'm a Christian. At that level it's all a game of definitions anyway, so I don't take what one feels is required to call themself Christian too seriously. However, that's not all that was being said here. People were gravely misrepresenting my beliefs. I merely answered questions and addressed inaccuracies.

I guess I would have thought that God's truth would matter to a christian.

Guess that's not universally true.

My bad.

[Adam-ondi-Ahman]

So, how does, for instance, wearing holy underwear, align with the Bible?

How doesn't it? We believe this doctrine comes from God, so thus we comply. Just because you don't believe it comes from God doesn't make us wrong and you right?

The Bible does talk about Holy clothing:

Ex. 28: 4
4 And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest’s office.

I suppose you would have a point if the Bible said "Don't wear certain types of underwear.", but it doesn't. The Bible can't contain everything, thus the need for modern revelation.

John 21:
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

[Quester]

There are differences between Christian and Mormon belief.

You are correct. Now, why is that? We content that we have received modern revelation to clarify the truth, via living prophets and additional scripture.

For example, we know that Satan (known as Lucifer in the pre-mortal world) was our brother because of clarifying revelation. But the Bible does allude to this:

Isaiah 14: 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations.

We share a commonality with Lucifer/Satan (and all of the other angels) ... in that we are creations of God.

Jesus was not a creation of God.

He was the only begotten Son of God.