JPII's funeral is burned into my memory banks ... as is the week that followed with the Novendiale Masses.
Anyone aware of a media source offering full coverage of JPII's funeral on DVD?
Posted on 09/15/2005 4:45:53 PM PDT by NYer
VATICAN CITY, SEPT. 15, 2005 (Zenit.org).- It's hard to say how long the beatification process for John Paul II would take, says a Vatican official who cautioned that talk of the Polish Pope's "martyrdom" is not appropriate.
"Pope Benedict XVI dispensed only the time required to open the cause, not the cause itself," said Cardinal José Saraiva Martins, prefect of the Congregation for Sainthood Causes.
He was responding to a question posed Wednesday during the blessing of the statue of St. Josemaría Escrivá at St. Peter's Basilica.
On May 13, less than six weeks after the death of John Paul II, his successor in the Petrine See announced his decision to dispense with the five-year waiting period established by canon law to open the cause for beatification of the deceased Pope.
Cries of "Santo subito" -- Sainthood now! -- resounded in St. Peter's Square on April 8, the day of John Paul II's funeral.
The process of beatification, begun in the Diocese of Rome because John Paul II was Bishop of this see, entails the gathering of all the documentation on the deceased Pontiff, including testimonies of those who knew him. Later, possible miracles will be studied attributed to his intercession.
"We'll see"
"Canon law prescribes two phases, the diocesan and the Roman," said Cardinal Saraiva. "The congregation has issued the decree of the diocesan phase and I don't know how long it will last, because it depends on the vicariate and the local Church.
"When they have gathered all the required documentation, the whole dossier will be sent to my congregation and only then will the Roman [Curial] phase begin. Then we'll see."
Cardinal Saraiva said that in John Paul II's case, talk of "martyrdom" is not appropriate.
"I don't see this possibility, it is very difficult," he said. "Martyrdom, in fact, is something very specific, defined from a theological, historical and canonical point of view. Martyr is the one who gives up his life, who prefers to die, to allow himself to be killed, because of his faith."
"I have no doubts that John Paul II would have responded this way, but he didn't have the opportunity," stated the cardinal.
Regarding those who allude to "martyrdom" when referring to the May 1981 attempt on the Pope's life, Cardinal Saraiva explained that a "moral martyrdom" was possible, but not a "physical martyrdom," according to the criteria of canon law.
He wasn't a martyr, in the traditional sense of the term, but his death was very heroic. I will be honest: I was very, very disappointed in him and always felt that he could have done more to stem the tide of heresy and evil that swept the Church during his pontificate, but he was obviously a good and devout person and I never thought he was on the side of the heretics and evil ones.
However, for a media person like JPII, letting himself be shown in extremis, dying quite unglamorously on TV, was a truly heroic thing and I think it probably made many people rethink their lives and recall to mind the Four Last Things. Well, maybe recall isn't the right word, since most people no longer konw them (Death, Judgment, Heaven and Hell), but it certainly was a powerful statement about life, death and faith in an age that doesn't understand any of them. From my point of view, this alone would be cause for canonization.
The Pope is a suicide bomber???!?! (/sarcasm)
I wold imagine that the whole dossier could be a library in and of itself. Going through all that could take quite a while.
Cardinal Saraiva said that in John Paul II's case, talk of "martyrdom" is not appropriate.
This statement shows that we are now past the initial emotionalism directly following his death. It never did make sense to me that some people, otherwise well educated and including prelates, were talking in terms of matyrdom for the late (and great) Pontiff.
I don't believe in coincidences. Consider, then, the fact that as JPII's condition deteriorated, his medical team adivsed that a feeding tube be inserted around the same time that a feeding tube was removed from Terri Schiavo. The media caught it.
Then there was the morning of his Sunday address when he opened his mouth and nothing came out. The media caught that too. The image of the Holy Father, framed in the window of his appartments, mouth agape and a look of great consternation on his face, will remain with me forever.
He preached what he lived and died as he preached. Though some may disagree with his policies on ecumenism, this humble servant of God did his best to follow his beliefs and lead the church home to their Lord and Savior. I have no doubt that he is reaping the rewards of his ministry in heaven, seated beside the woman he most adored, our Blessed Mother.
Ditto! If anything, I was truly stunned at even the suggestion that he had died a martyr's death. What a relief that this is now resolved and his canonization will proceed along the more traditional lines.
Yes, I remember that too. And I remember the comments of many people, even here on FR, who were shocked that he would "let himself be seen" like that. To me, that was truly heroic and I think even non-Christians were touched by it; it was probably one of the reasons that his funeral was virtually overflowing with people from all over the world.
It was reported that at the time of JPII funeral the pickpockets in Rome took their time off, despite the large number of pilgrims - there were [if one is to believe the reports] no thefts. Well, if true, that alone clearly qualifies as a MAJOR miracle.
I was reminded of Johnny Cash in his last months: "This is death, folks. I'm not afraid of it; why are you?"
And I agree that the idea that someone who died from complications of old age was a martyr, in the sense generally understood, is quite askew.
JPII's funeral is burned into my memory banks ... as is the week that followed with the Novendiale Masses.
Anyone aware of a media source offering full coverage of JPII's funeral on DVD?
There are DVD's out of the Papal Conclave and Pope Benedict's installation, but I haven't seen JP2's funeral in any catalogs, yet.
I'm not a big fan of Vatican II, but I have no doubt that Pope John Paul II was nothing other than a devout, faithful servant of the Lord. His love of our Lady has always made my heart smile and I have no doubt he is with her in God's kingdom.
I've never, ever blamed him for the errors in the church as what is meant to be is meant to be and was out of his hands.
Ecclesiastes 3:3
1 All things have their season, and in their times all things pass under heaven.
2 A time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted.
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal. A time to destroy, and a time to build.
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh. A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
5 A time to scatter stones, and a time to gather. A time to embrace, and a time to be far from embraces.
6 A time to get, and a time to lose. A time to keep, and a time to cast away.
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew. A time to keep silence, and a time to speak.
8 A time of love, and a time of hatred. A time of war, and a time of peace.
9 What hath man more of his labour?
10 I have seen the trouble, which God hath given the sons of men to be exercised in it.
I'm grateful that we had him to lead the church during these troubled times. Thank you LORD!
EWTN has the Funeral Rites on DVD.
I am glad for the clarification. I have no doubt John Paul will one day be canonized, but I think declaring him a "martyr" would twist the concept of martyrdom beyond recognition.
You are absolutely right about the heroic nature of John Paul's death. The way he lived with Parkinson's was also heroic: what a witness in an age when people are being urged to destroy nascent human life to allegedly cure such diseases.
One could also look at the entire canvas of JPII's pontificate as a constant clash between his own wishes and God's demands on him.
His ambiguity about the consecration of Russia. His devaluing of the papacy in lieu of collegiality. And also his reliance on his own personal charisma which he allowed to overshadow his Holy Office are evidence of this.
It could be argued that God, as is often his method allowed him to reap what he sowed. He wouldn't discipline his modernist bishops, so the scandals rocked the Church and his political credibility was shot. His policy of ecumenism has lead to nothing but scorn from other false religions and indifference among the faithful and syncretism among his bishops.
He relied on his personal vigor instead of the papal charisma and God allowed his health and vitality to be taken from him. Because he was unwilling to speak clearly about Catholic doctrine unashamedly, it could be supposed that God took his power of eloquence and speech from him.
I hate the idea, but I question the heroic virtue and the faithfulness of someone who did so little to correct the errors going on in the Church. Who did so much to lower the status of the Church and her prerogatives. Rarely have we seen in history someone given so much and having done so little in the end. As a childhood friend of mine said who is not a particularly devout Catholic, (someone still struggling with faith) "How can someone who speaks so many languages say so little ?"
Canonization? I don't think so. He was almost the exact opposite of St. Pius X. One of the rarest of breeds, a sainted Pope of modern times. Once a person compares these two papacies, it becomes obvious that St. Pius was "the Great" and JPII was a disappointing papacy.
Where St. Pius X was clear and used plain language that can still be understood, JPII was confused and almost Clintonesque in his vagueries. Where St. Pius taught, JPII confused.
Where St. Pius X lowered himself humbly and exalted the papacy, JPII lowered the papacy and exalted himself. St. Pius X forbade applause for him and JPII always reveled in the "chants" and "slogans" for him.
Where St. Pius X is known to have performed numerous miracles (His famous quote,"They want miracles from me? As if I don't have enough to do already!" was shortly followed by some of the most miraculous healings in the history of the Church) he said it was not him but only "the power of the Keys."
JPII left those Keys in his pocket and preferred dialogue. And he was loathe to assume his station as he hid his pectoral cross at inter-religious gatherings for fear that Jesus would "offend" his guests. St. Pius X loathed the pomp and circumstance personally but knew the significance of what it meant to the papacy.
(as an aside, the beehive tiara and the robes of the Pope and the sedia gestatoria were all there to subdue the man and exalt the office of the Pope, that's why you can spot the Pope in the paintings and not even know the man. Photos of Pius X, XI XII and even despite his girth, John XXIII all look the same from a distance, giving the perpetual quality of the papacy a physical significance)
Looking at the pictures of St. Pius X on his deathbed, his youth restored on his face as he passed, crucifix in his hands from when he'd kissed it that last time, I can't help but compare it with the tortured and anguished look of JPII, his illusions never realized, dreams unfufilled, mission unaccomplished.
I can only pray that in those final weeks and hours he realized where he'd missed the mark as he wept bitter tears at Lourdes some months before his death and repented.
BTTT
Unfortunately the papacy of JPII will long be remembered for his twisting the concept of canonization and sainthood beyond recognition.
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