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1 posted on 09/15/2005 4:45:54 PM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...


2 posted on 09/15/2005 4:46:33 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

He wasn't a martyr, in the traditional sense of the term, but his death was very heroic. I will be honest: I was very, very disappointed in him and always felt that he could have done more to stem the tide of heresy and evil that swept the Church during his pontificate, but he was obviously a good and devout person and I never thought he was on the side of the heretics and evil ones.

However, for a media person like JPII, letting himself be shown in extremis, dying quite unglamorously on TV, was a truly heroic thing and I think it probably made many people rethink their lives and recall to mind the Four Last Things. Well, maybe recall isn't the right word, since most people no longer konw them (Death, Judgment, Heaven and Hell), but it certainly was a powerful statement about life, death and faith in an age that doesn't understand any of them. From my point of view, this alone would be cause for canonization.


3 posted on 09/15/2005 4:52:47 PM PDT by livius
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To: NYer

The Pope is a suicide bomber???!?! (/sarcasm)


4 posted on 09/15/2005 4:53:08 PM PDT by Appalled but Not Surprised
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To: NYer
"When they have gathered all the required documentation, the whole dossier will be sent to my congregation and only then will the Roman [Curial] phase begin. Then we'll see."

I wold imagine that the whole dossier could be a library in and of itself. Going through all that could take quite a while.

Cardinal Saraiva said that in John Paul II's case, talk of "martyrdom" is not appropriate.

This statement shows that we are now past the initial emotionalism directly following his death. It never did make sense to me that some people, otherwise well educated and including prelates, were talking in terms of matyrdom for the late (and great) Pontiff.

5 posted on 09/15/2005 4:57:39 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: NYer

It was reported that at the time of JPII funeral the pickpockets in Rome took their time off, despite the large number of pilgrims - there were [if one is to believe the reports] no thefts. Well, if true, that alone clearly qualifies as a MAJOR miracle.


9 posted on 09/15/2005 5:16:29 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: NYer

I am glad for the clarification. I have no doubt John Paul will one day be canonized, but I think declaring him a "martyr" would twist the concept of martyrdom beyond recognition.


15 posted on 09/16/2005 5:04:22 AM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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