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1 posted on 06/02/2005 2:57:55 PM PDT by LauraleeBraswell
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To: LauraleeBraswell
If there are no dogs in heaven, I don't want to go there.

L

2 posted on 06/02/2005 2:59:35 PM PDT by Lurker (Remember the Beirut Bombing; 243 dead Marines. The House of Assad and Hezbollah did it..)
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To: LauraleeBraswell

No.

Only mankind was created in God's image. That image is not fingers and toes, it is the soul.


3 posted on 06/02/2005 3:00:58 PM PDT by Michael Goldsberry (an enemy of islam -- Joe Boucher; Leapfrog; Dr.Zoidberg; Lazamataz; ...)
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To: LauraleeBraswell

No Doggie, No Deal.


5 posted on 06/02/2005 3:02:26 PM PDT by jsbankston
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To: LauraleeBraswell
>Do dogs go to heaven? (What does your religion say?


9 posted on 06/02/2005 3:06:14 PM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: LauraleeBraswell
My religion says that chickens are the only animals to go to heaven. Billions and billions of chickens will be there.

Which must mean that heaven will be just like Arkansas, only bigger.

10 posted on 06/02/2005 3:06:31 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: LauraleeBraswell

Whether the plants and animals will remain in this renewal?

Objection 1. It would seem that the plants and animals will remain in this renewal. For the elements should be deprived of nothing that belongs to their adornment. Now the elements are said to be adorned by the animals and plants [Cf. Gn. 1:11,12,20,21,24,25. Therefore they will not be removed in this renewal.

Objection 2. Further, just as the elements served man, so also did animals, plants and mineral bodies. But on account of this service the elements will be glorified. Therefore both animals and plants and mineral bodies will be glorified likewise.

Objection 3. Further, the universe will remain imperfect if anything belonging to its perfection be removed. Now the species of animals, plants, and mineral bodies belong to the perfection of the universe. Since then we must not say that the world will remain imperfect when it is renewed, it seems that we should assert that the plants and animals will remain.

Objection 4. Further, animals and plants have a more noble form than the elements. Now the world, at this final renewal, will be changed for the better. Therefore animals and plants should remain rather than the elements, since they are nobler.

Objection 5. Further, it is unseemly to assert that the natural appetite will be frustrated. But by their natural appetite animals and plants desire to be for ever, if indeed not as regards the individual, at least as regards the species: and to this end their continual generation is directed (De Generat. ii). Therefore it is unseemly to say that these species will at length cease to be.

On the contrary, If plants and animals are to remain, either all of them will, or some of them. If all of them, then dumb animals, which had previously died, will have to rise again just as men will rise again. But this cannot be asserted for since their form comes to nothing, they cannot resume the same identical form. On the other hand if not all but some of them remain, since there is no more reason for one of them remaining for ever rather than another, it would seem that none of them will. But whatever remains after the world has been renewed will remain for ever, generation and corruption being done away. Therefore plants and animals will altogether cease after the renewal of the world.

Further, according to the Philosopher (De Generat. ii) the species of animals, plants and such like corruptible things, are not perpetuated except by the continuance of the heavenly movement. Now this will cease then. Therefore it will be impossible for those species to be perpetuated.

Further, if the end cease, those things which are directed to the end should cease. Now animals and plants were made for the upkeep of human life; wherefore it is written (Gn. 9:3): "Even as the green herbs have I delivered all flesh to you [Vulg.: 'have I delivered them all to you']." Therefore when man's animal life ceases, animals and plants should cease. But after this renewal animal life will cease in man. Therefore neither plants nor animals ought to remain.

I answer that, Since the renewal of the world will be for man's sake it follows that it should be conformed to the renewal of man. Now by being renewed man will pass from the state of corruption to incorruptibility and to a state of everlasting rest, wherefore it is written (1 Cor. 15:53): "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality"; and consequently the world will be renewed in such a way as to throw off all corruption and remain for ever at rest. Therefore it will be impossible for anything to be the subject of that renewal, unless it be a subject of incorruption. Now such are the heavenly bodies, the elements, and man. For the heavenly bodies are by their very nature incorruptible both as to their whole and as to their part: the elements are corruptible as to their parts but incorruptible as a whole: while men are corruptible both in whole and in part, but this is on the part of their matter not on the part of their form, the rational soul to wit, which will remain incorrupt after the corruption of man. on the other hand, dumb animals, plants, and minerals, and all mixed bodies, are corruptible both in their whole and in their parts, both on the part of their matter which loses its form, and on the part of their form which does not remain actually; and thus they are in no way subjects of incorruption. Hence they will not remain in this renewal, but those things alone which we have mentioned above.

Reply to Objection 1. These bodies are said to adorn the elements, inasmuch as the general active and passive forces which are in the elements are applied to specific actions: hence they adorn the elements in their active and passive state. But this state will not remain in the elements: wherefore there is no need for animals or plants to remain.

Reply to Objection 2. Neither animals nor plants nor any other bodies merited anything by their services to man, since they lack free-will. However, certain bodies are said to be rewarded in so far as man merited that those things should be renewed which are adapted to be renewed. But plants and animals are not adapted to the renewal of incorruption, as stated above. Wherefore for this very reason man did not merit that they should be renewed, since no one can merit for another, or even for himself that which another or himself is incapable of receiving. Hence, granted even that dumb animals merited by serving man, it would not follow that they are to be renewed.

Reply to Objection 3. Just as several kinds of perfection are ascribed to man (for there is the perfection of created nature and the perfection of glorified nature), so also there is a twofold perfection of the universe, one corresponding to this state of changeableness, the other corresponding to the state of a future renewal. Now plants and animals belong to its perfection according to the present state, and not according to the state of this renewal, since they are not capable thereof.

Reply to Objection 4. Although animals and plants as to certain other respects are more noble than the elements, the elements are more noble in relation to incorruption, as explained above [Cf, 74, 1, ad 3.

Reply to Objection 5. The natural desire to be for ever that is in animals and plants must be understood in reference to the movement of the heaven, so that they may continue in being as long as the movement of the heaven lasts: since there cannot be an appetite for an effect to last longer than its cause. Wherefore if at the cessation of movement in the first movable body, plants and animals cease as to their species, it does not follow that the natural appetite is frustrated.

(Summa Theologica, Suppl. 91.5)

13 posted on 06/02/2005 3:09:32 PM PDT by annalex
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To: LauraleeBraswell
Well, I'm reasonably certain my cat won't be there, seeing as she is THE SPAWN OF SATAN. Stupid 4 a.m. meowin', kitchen sink hoggin', fish breathed, stomach stomper. </RANT>

It's a real love/hate relationship.

16 posted on 06/02/2005 3:12:48 PM PDT by Jack of all Trades
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To: LauraleeBraswell
I think animals are the physical manifestation of angels.

20 posted on 06/02/2005 3:14:15 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: LauraleeBraswell

I personally believe all of God's creatures, animal or human, return to Him. Here are some bible references about animals & their souls - first, I'm going to excerpt one that means the most to me:

<< ECCLESIASTES 3:19-21

Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath, man has no advantage over the animal. >>




GENESIS 1: 20-25

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GENESIS 9: 14-17

When I gather the clouds over the earth and the bow appears in the clouds, I shall recall the covenant between myself and you and every living creature, in a word all living things, and never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all living things. When the bow is in the clouds I shall see it and call to mind the eternal covenant between God and every living creature on earth, that is, all living things. `That' God told Noah, `is the sign of the covenant I have established between myself and all living things on earth.'

ISAIAH 11:6-9

And the wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed, their young ones shall lie down together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

JOB 12:7-10

You have only to ask the cattle, for them to instruct you, and the birds of the sky, for them to inform you. The creeping things of earth will give you lessons, and the fish of the sea provide you an explanation: there is not one such creature but will know that the hand of God has arranged things like this! In his hand is the soul of every living thing and the breath of every human being!

PSALM 50:9-11

I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens, for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills. I know every bird in the mountains, and the creatures of the field are mine.

PSALMS 50:10-11

For all forest creatures are mine already, the animals on the mountains in their thousands. I know every bird in the air, whatever moves in the fields is mine.

PSALM 136:25

...And who gives food to every creature. His love endures forever.

PROVERBS 12:10

A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal

ECCLESIASTES 3:19-21

Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath, man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?


LUKE 12:6

Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before god.


26 posted on 06/02/2005 3:27:30 PM PDT by Peace4EarthNow
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To: LauraleeBraswell

"If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons."

- James Thurber


29 posted on 06/02/2005 3:31:11 PM PDT by orlop9
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To: LauraleeBraswell; HairOfTheDog

Doggie ping!

Here's one to kick around!


35 posted on 06/02/2005 3:46:11 PM PDT by beaureguard
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To: LauraleeBraswell

I believe dogs are souls, just as humans are souls. All fleshly creatures are souls. They all have the same eventuality according to Ecclesiastes. When souls die, their thoughts perish and they have no consciousness, but God can resurrect them (breathe the breath of life, the spirit, back into them), to heaven or to earth. I do not believe there is going to be any resurrection of animals because the Bible does not teach this.

I don't have any children, but I knew about death and what it was from the Bible by the time my first pet died, when I was 3 years old. I was sad, but I wasn't tramautized by it. I am a Jehovah's Witness.


38 posted on 06/02/2005 4:00:21 PM PDT by DameAutour
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To: LauraleeBraswell

I have had numerous cats, dogs, pet rats, birds, turtles, chameleons, and rabbits...they all had their own personality, and they were all loved by me, and the hubby and my boys..they have all gone on to whatever God provides for them...I would hope that eventually I would be reunited with all of them again...that would be truly heaven....

When my younger boy was just 6, he wanted a bunny rabbit...so we got him one, and the hubby built a hutch for him outside...however, the minister who lived next door to us, had a hunting dog, and eventually she got into our yard, somehow opened the hutch, and killed the bunny...the minister felt so bad, and said he would buy us a new rabbit.. but my son was so concerned about his dead rabbit...

At the church where this minister had his ministry, they had just built a new cemetary next door to the church...no one had yet been buried in it...so the minister took my son, with his bunny in a box, and up to the new cemetary they went, and the minister buried the bunny in a corner of the new cemetary, and he said a prayer over the bunny...then he bought my son a new rabbit... but after a few months, that dog again got into our yard, and got into the hutch, and killed the rabbit...same story...minister and my son buried the 2nd bunny up in the cemetary, and the minister bought us a new bunny, which now lived in the house with us, to keep him safe...

But it was touching to see this minister take such great care, to provide comfort to my son, by burying his bunnies in the church cemetary and saying a prayer over him....like a little funeral for animals..the minister said he did not really know if our animals went to heaven, just said we could trust in the Lord to decide what was best....but by son was so consoled by having his bunnies buried in the church cemetary, and believed that would provide a path to heaven for his beloved pets...


39 posted on 06/02/2005 4:01:06 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: LauraleeBraswell

"And what do you tell your six year old when Fluffy the formerly lost hamster turns up dead in the hallway closet?"




"I found where that smells coming from!"


40 posted on 06/02/2005 4:01:22 PM PDT by Recall
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To: LauraleeBraswell

Dogs -- and animals -- do not have souls. (This according to Orthodox Christian teaching.) Only creatures with souls go to heaven.

One of my priests (who was very much a dog lover) said that when an animal dies, that is it for the animal. But that is not an excuse to treat animals -- especially pets -- badly. Since this life is it for them you must treat them in a kindly and Christian manner -- even those animals that you raise for food. Pets give you love unreservedly, and especially merit good treatment because of that. In a sense, they offer an opportunity to practice Christian virtues.

Seemed like a good explanation to me. Will one miss pets in heaven? Good question, but since you will not miss a lot of things that are important to life on Earth (remember Christ said you do not take each other in marriage in heaven -- even those that were married on Earth), I kind of doubt whether the presence or absence of a beloved pet will be of consequence.


42 posted on 06/02/2005 4:07:02 PM PDT by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
Bump for later.

I have a story.

45 posted on 06/02/2005 4:13:37 PM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: LauraleeBraswell

A week after my uncle's beloved, ancient miniature poodle died, he saw the dog standing on the right side of the altar in church, patting one foot on the altar, and quivering as if about to run to him. My uncle had a wild youth but at this time was a sober, church going man. He said it took him a few years to figure out the dog's message: stay on the right side of God.

And then "greater love hath no man than he who lays down his life for his friends." When you consider that animals have sacrificed their lives, you might wonder.

I never loved an animal so dearly myself that I think it would not be heaven without its presence. And I really don't have an opinion. But it is possible, I think. The Bible speaks of all of nature singing God's praises, and the lion lying down with the lamb.


47 posted on 06/02/2005 4:53:57 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: LauraleeBraswell

My understanding is that there will be animals in heaven, but they will not be our pets. Our furry friends are not eternal spiritual beings. We live forever, they do not.


51 posted on 06/02/2005 5:29:04 PM PDT by Knute (W- Still the President!)
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To: All
What about Aliens? Is Alf going to be there? the evil aliens from Aliens? Predator?? Yeesh I hope not. Did Jesus go to different planets? How did the alien from Aliens go from bursting out of someone's chest to being twice the size of a normal human in the space of a couple of hours????
Who knows.
52 posted on 06/02/2005 5:36:27 PM PDT by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
Two references to dogs in Martin Luther's "Table Talk":

c. 1523
"Dr. Martin Luther played with his dog and said,'The dog is a very faithful animal and is held in high esteem if he isn't too ordinary. Our Lord God has made the best gifts most common. The pre-eminent gift given to all living things is the eye. Small birds have very bright eyes, like little stars, and can see a fly a room-length away. But we don't acknowledge such everyday gifts. We are stupid clods. In the future life we'll see them, however; there we ourselves will make birds with pretty, shining eyes."

c. 1542
"The Doctor [Martin Luther] said, 'I just received a letter from Jonas. He wrote that a dog had &hit into the grave of the bishop of Halle. I believe it's fatal, for it has also happened to others before. Once when there was a procession with banners around the church, the verger put the holy water pot on the ground. A dog came along and pi&&ed into the holy water pot. A priest noticed this because he was sprinkling the water, and he said, 'You impious dog! Have you become a Lutheran, too?'"
53 posted on 06/02/2005 5:37:19 PM PDT by lightman (The Office of the Keys should be exercised as some ministry needs to be exorcised.)
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