interesting
It was the damn civil engineers that lead to the downfall of the roman empire with all the lead pipes for the water.
We don't have lead pipes anymore.
Fuggedaboutit!
Gwarsh, guess I didn't realize I held that post red! Blush. What a responsibility! LOL.
Old Sarge, Don't really want to go around and around with you on this one. I respect you tons and even a long list of your biases tons--just not this one. You COULD be more charitable toward those of us with a different perspective.
Stormy . . . In the early days of FR, anyone posting ANYTHING out of THE CONVENTIONAL NORM were considered trolls out to destroy FR.
Wasn't a very enlightened or factual thing then and isn't now. Some trolls did try and discredit FR with some pretty outlandish stuff. And, the folks viscerally, biased-ly hostile to supernatural stuff whether spiritual, Biblical or otherwise were compulsively prone to rant and rail at any hint of such posted on FR. Some of that bent remains--especially on the part of some particular folk. I'd suggest ignoring them. There's no reasoning with most of them.
In terms of your question . . . There's NO QUESTION--as evidenced in the doc you ref AND A VERY LONG LIST of UN and other international organizations' house organ publications FOR AT LEAST THE LAST 50 YEARS [studied them in my job as acting head of the univ Special Collections Dept 1965-1969]--THERE'S NO QUESTION but that the UN et al have been working inexorably toward the Biblical one world government for a very long time.
Certainly satan has been working toward it far longer.
You are right--as Rothschild reportedly asserted--he didn't care what form of government a country had as long as he had control of the money. Certainly the world-wide use of credit/debit cards and the pending transfer of such to the SLAG will wrap that goal up very tidily with all the world's citizens serfs to that system just as The Bible predicted--no one will be able to buy or sell without it AS THE BIBLE PREDICTED ~2000 years ago.
FR folk can be willfully ignorant of the well documented facts and call them a conspiracy 'theory' if they wish. Facts are still facts. And these facts are very abundant for anyone with a 6th grade capacity to do research in the original documents. What do they think--that these organizations and lofty world leaders are just farting through both ends for entertainment and have NO intention of establishing a world government of tyranny?
Do they really think that SHRILLERY Antoinette de Fosterizer de Marx de Machiavelli de Stalin de Pol Pot de Sade ONLY wants to be head of the USA??? She at least wants to be head of one of the 10 WORLD SUPRANATIONAL REGIONS--NORTH AM but she likely is bucking for head of the hemisphere given her grandiosity.
Certainly the world court IS PART OF THAT PUZZLE ALONG WITH THE LAW OF THE SEA. Reagan was right to oppose it. Bush is wrong to support it whether he's been threatened with his life if he doesn't or not.
We are right to oppose all such moves though they will inexorably occur anyway. It's always wise to be on the side of right, imho.
We know from Scripture that the world government will occur. It will be in power 3.5-7 years plus maybe some 'birth-pang' years. Though in many ways--it already is in power economically.
I also have long pondered the status of the USA in the end times. I know Dimitru Duduman saw many dreams and visions of China, Russia and a list of other nations attacking the USA from the West Coast, through Mexico [China and probably No Korea] and the East Coast, Alaska, Gulf of Mexico [Russia, Cuba, Lybia, Iran, and 'a European nation' which I have assumed was France].
He saw the battle bog down with the middle USA somewhat in patriot's control. He saw Christian Chinese in the PLA eventually turn and fight with Americans against their Chinese fellow soldiers. He saw a Chinese general set out to execute EVERY American in California until he was assassinated in San Francisco. He reportedly will use mass burials alive with buldozers amongst other means. Supposedly Russia will seek to kill every American in Alaska--no small task given the distances and dispersions.
We shall see.
Personally, I believe that the USA must cease to be Israel's protector. GOD ALONE IS DETERMINED TO FILL THAT ROLE. But, we will pay dearly for forsaking Israel, too.
I believe that Americans have far more than ever in my life forsaken God and God's ways and that we will reap what we have sown in that regard. I realize that there are still many seriously Bible believing Christians in the land. Perhaps we are more than the 10 that God couldn't find in Lot proportionally. However, I also know that the best churches in my town seem to be hideous charades of Christianity. I know that even the better Christians I know have great trouble acting remotely Christ-like.
Thanks for your post. Post more, if you wish. And if you want on my DREAMS, VISIONS, PROPHECY PING LIST, please let me know. Generally speaking, JR prefers such posts be put in the religion forum or even chat.
Blessings.
Res ipso loquior
Welcome to FR.
I appreciate your concern for end time theology.
You can always expect a healthy mix of criticism, understanding, and bible challenge on the FR religion forum. Don't take it personally.
Your speculation about the international court has a number of weaknesses as well. In your opinion, what is its most significant weakness?
____________________
If we are linking this to Rome, Italy, this is not true. In a Socialist country laws are made by the governing party and enforced by the judicial system. The courts do nothing more than the will of the party. If we are linking this to the United States, this is also not true. We have three powers, Executive, Legislative and Judicial. All keeping the others in check. Sometimes it does not seem like that but, over the past 200 years, it has worked better than any other governing system mankind has come up with. If you are linking this with the United Nations, you may have a valid point. Although they are in their own minds the judicial body of the world. With Goofy Annon at the helm they have become a corrupt body of ineffective fools, only doing the bidding of the secretary general and his minions. (see first item about a socialist system) Oh, beware of posting something this deep at the beginning here at FR. The kitties have been fed well lately and might mistake you as the next course of the buffet.
I'm pretty sure that the Roman Empire was the Roman Empire we were waiting on.
Welcome to the Freeper forums.
There's some snarky poops in here. Don't let it rattle you.
It makes as much or more sense than anything Hal Lindsey can conjure up. I will try and let it settle into my mind and see if it fits later. Don't let people put you off easily, some on this forum spend their days dreaming of being crabby to new people.
Mystery
Strong's:
3466 musterion {moos-tay'-ree-on}
from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); TDNT - 4:802,615; n n
AV - mystery 27; 27
1) hidden thing, secret, mystery
1a) generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the
initiated and not to ordinary mortals
1b) a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding
1c) a hidden purpose or counsel
1c1) secret will
1c1a) of men
1c1b) of God: the secret counsels which govern God in
dealing with the righteous, which are hidden from
ungodly and wicked men but plain to the godly
3) in rabbinic writings, it denotes the mystic or hidden sense:
of an OT saying, of an image or form seen in a vision, of a dream
TDNT - 4:802,615
[Theological Dictionary of the New Testament]
musterion
From pg. 803:
The etym. of the word itself is a mystery. Probable, though not certain, is derivation múein "to close' (the mouth, lips), not to be confused with muein "to dedicate"... Other traditional derivations only demonstrate the uncertainty and are valueless... Thus the etymology leads only to the fairly certain general conclusion that a musterion is something on which silence must be kept. For the rest we are wholly dependent on usage, which quickly established the word as a precise term, especially in the religious field.
Compare the following Hebrew words:
Strong's
05641 cathar {saw-thar'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 1551; v
AV - hide 72, secret 4, close 2, absent 1, conceal 1, surely 1,
variant 1; 82
1) to hide, conceal
1a) (Niphal)
1a1) to hide oneself
1a2) to be hidden, be concealed
1b) (Piel) to hide carefully
1c) (Pual) to be hidden carefully, be concealed
1d) (Hiphil) to conceal, hide
1e) (Hithpael) to hide oneself carefully
05643 cether {say'-ther} or (fem.) cithrah (De 32:38), {sith-raw'}
from 05641; TWOT - 1551a,1551b
AV - secret 12, secretly 9, covert 5, secret place 3, hiding place 2,
backbiting 1, covering 1, disguiseth 1, privily 1, protection 1; 36
n m
1) covering, shelter, hiding place, secrecy
1a) covering, cover
1b) hiding place, shelter, secret place
1c) secrecy
1c1) secrecy (of tongue being slanderous)
n f
2) shelter, protection
Here is the TWOT [Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament] root breakdown
1551 (satar) [Stg: 5641] hide, conceal. Not used in the Qal.
DERIVATIVES
1551a (seter) [Stg: 5643] hiding place.
1551b (sitra) hiding place.
1551c (mistor) [Stg: 4563] place of shelter.
1551d (mistar) [Stg: 4565] hiding place.
1551e (master) [Stg: 4564] hiding, one who causes people to hide.
The root in its basic meaning "hide" is common to West, Southwest, and Southeast Semitic. The subordinate thought of protection involved in the root, which helps to distinguish it from its synonyms alam "conceal" and haba "withdraw," "hide," is reflected in such Amorite names as Sitre-Bahlum, "Baal is my protection." <<<
The root is samech tav resh. Note that nouns are formed with the addition of the mem prefix. That is, a secret place = the letter mem + the root letters str.
mstr, or mstvr, forms a word very similar to the Greek "muster-ion", or the English "myster-y", which of course mean "something hidden or secret". The mem plus the root str, in the Hebrew language itself, forms abstract nouns of similar meaning.
Entries from
A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Language for readers of English:
mistor m.n. hiding place, shelter (a hapax legomenon in the Bible, occurring Is. 4:6). [Formed from str (= to hide), with pre. m.] Derivative: mistori
mistori adj. NH mysterious. [Formed from mistor with suff. i; influenced in meaning by mistorin.]
mistorin m.n. PBH mystery. [ A blend of mistor and Gk. mysterion (= mystery). See mistorin*
mistar: m.n. hiding place [formed from str = to hide, with prefix m]
mustar: adj. NH hidden, concealed [Part. of hustar (= was hidden), Hoph. of str.]
m'sutar adj. hidden, concealed. Part of sutar (= was hidden, Pu. of str.)
[*Ed. t = tet, not tav as the others listed above; tet is used to transliterate foreign words into Hebrew]
*mistorin m.n. PBH mystery. [Gk. mysterion (= secret rite, mystery), usually in the pl. mysteria (= the secret rites, mysteries), from mystes (= one initiated into the mysteries). See misti and cp. mistrorin
*misti adj. FW [Gk. mysticos (= 'pertaining to secret rites', properly, 'pertaining to an initiate'), from mystes (= one initiated into the mysteries), which prob. means lit. 'one whose eyes are closed', from myein (= to be shut or closed — said easp. of the lips and eyes)...]
NH = New Hebrew
BH = Biblical Hebrew
FW = foreign word
***
One of the names in the Hebrew Scripture which has a numeric value of 666 is
05639 C@thuwr {seth-oor'}
from 05641;; n pr m
AV - Sethur 1; 1
Sethur = "hidden"
1) son of Michael, the spy from the tribe of Asher
spelled: samech tav vav resh
Since the word construction for Magog is "that which is 'of Gog'" (mem + gog), then similarly, mem + stvr could be "that which is of Sethur (the 'hidden' 666 name)". The spelling would be the same as mistor:
mistor m.n. hiding place, shelter (a hapax legomenon in the Bible, occurring Is. 4:6). [Formed from str (= to hide), with pre. m.] Derivative: mistori
mistori adj. NH mysterious. [Formed from mistor with suff. i; influenced in meaning by mistorin.]
So even the name numbered 666 is "hidden", a mystery as it were.
A funny way of remembering the "number" of this Sethur-mystery, is to note that mistor (mem + stvr, Sethur) = 40 (the value of the letter mem) + 666, or 706, which is Strong's number here:
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number [706] of his name.
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number [706] of the beast: for it is the number [706] of a man; and his number [706] is Six hundred threescore and six.
706 arithmos {ar-ith-mos'}
from 142; TDNT - 1:461,78; n m
AV - number 18; 18
1) a fixed and definite number
2) an indefinite number, a multitude
Since the word construction for Magog is "that which is 'of Gog'" (mem + gog), then similarly, mem + stvr could be "that which is of Sethur (the 'hidden' 666 name)". Perhaps that explains the name "Mystery, Babylon the Great...", the mysterious harlot who rides the beast, a beast having a number of 666 (it does appear to be the same one as in ch. 13), the total of the name Sethur.
Not much is mentioned about Sethur, save that he was one of the ten (hmmm) spies who gave an "evil report" of the land, and the son of one named Michael ("who is like God"), of the tribe of Asher ("happy, blessed"). Not a "happy" ending for Sethur (= 666) ben Michael (=153):
Numbers 14:36-38
36 And the men, which Moses sent to search the land, who returned, and made all the congregation to murmur against him, by bringing up a slander upon the land,
37 Even those men that did bring up the evil report upon the land, died by the plague before the LORD.
38 But Joshua the son of Nun, and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, which were of the men that went to search the land, lived still.
FWIW
The problem is that the UN didn't change YHWH's Laws, the times or the seasons.
Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
I think the blasphemies are 'false doctrine'. Changing the Sabbath to Sun-day, in honor of the 'venerable day of the sun', changes YHWH's Law regarding the 4th Commandment.
The biblical calendar has been around since the beginning. It was given to all mankind. The Babylonians used it. When the exile ended the Jews brought it with them. This is why the Jewish calendar has Babylonian names for the months. But, the papacy changed all that with the introduction of the Julian calendar, which was later revised and became the Gregorian calendar. Under the Gregorian calendar, the New Year is changed and is no longer in the spring as G-d/YHWH commanded. Passover was changed to Easter and of course the Sabbath was changed to SUN day. That, along with starting the "day" at midnight, made their "change of times and seasons" complete.
Exodus 12
1 And YHWH spoke unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying:
2 'This month shall be unto you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year to you.
This was commanded by YHWH to Moses at the time of the Passover, which always comes in spring.
In accordance with its ancient beginnings (right from The Seven Days Of Creation when light was created after the darkness), Bible calendar days were, and are, determined to begin and end at sunset e.g "from evening to evening shall you keep your sabbath" (Leviticus 23:32 )
Genesis 1
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Leviticus 23
32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
The Popes/RCC with the help of Constantine who presided over the Council of Nicea have fulfilled Daniel 7:25, the 4th beast of verse 23.
watch out, the boogey man is going to get you.
This is one reason why I am a Calvinist. You charismatics that have your wacky pre-mill views implicating the UN and all sorts of things based on some weird Scripture interpretations are not just silly, but dangerous becuase of how you are corrupting the modern church.