Posted on 08/09/2004 8:53:46 PM PDT by narses
Melinda Henneberger: At an Environment 2004 party on Beacon Hill Monday evening I ran into Francesco Rutelli, the popular former mayor of Rome, and asked him about rumors that he, a pro-choice Catholic of the Italian left, had nonetheless received communion from Pope John Paul II himself.
"Oh yes, this is true,'' he said, and asked to be walked though the controversy in the American Catholic Church, where some bishops have suggested that pro-choice politicians like John Kerry should be denied communion. "This is very strange for me,'' Rutelli said, "that you cannot be a Christian and also uphold the law of your country.''
"So, this is politics, too?'' he asked of the bishops, wryly suggesting that perhaps these American prelates were too far from Rome—and too close to Washington.
(Excerpt) Read more at 64.233.161.104 ...
"In here, I see SSPXers using it to justify disobedience. The enemies of the Church will use any stick to beat the Church."
Some points to ponder. 1 - you imply the SSPX is an enemy of the Church. Rome has invited them to regularize their status with a stunning and worldwide Personal Prelature. Are you suggesting Rome is inviting the ENEMIES OF THE CHURCH into the fold?
2 - you claim the SSPX is using this to justify disobedience. Where do you see that? If you are going to make these rather serious charges, you should be willing to provide evidence.
So, this guy is a lefty... he is like the most liberal pope of all time.
You seem to be saying that 1 - this incident is untrue, and 2 - it is unimportant.
Reflect on the multiple sources I posted. Reflect on the current, public controversy in the USCCB. Reflect on the role His Holiness plays in our Holy Mother the Church.
It appears to me to be more likely true than not and that the confusion evidenced in the USCCB is equally present (or at least simularly present) in Rome.
The Church is idefectable, the men given charge of Her are not. We, as laity, especially since Vatican II, have been encouraged to be involved, to speak out, yes?
Assume the facts posted here are verifiable, doesn't that help explain the divergence of opinion in the USCCB?
I don't think that I agree. He is a mystic, he is very conservative in much of his writing, he fought hard against Godless State Communism when such a fight ended many holy lives. He may well be one of the least able administrators Rome has seen, but measured against over 100 predecessors, he probably is not the worst. As a non Italian, I bet he had as much traction in Rome in the beginning as Jimmy Carter did in DC.
Possibly 2008. Governor Jeb Bush, Governor Bill Owens, and Senator Rick Santorum are all possible nominees in 2008.
Has it been written that it is now ok (and I'm asking this seriously) to say Mass with a Buddha on the Altar, as some of those pictures posted here seem to indicate has been done? If those Masses were performed by some of His Bishops, and the placement of the Buddha was wrong, was that addressed anywhere, so the Faithful could learn what was really meant, or that an error occurred?
Are we supposed to not concern ourselves with the Clergy's actions? It seems to me that if we had a less flaccid laity, bringing some of these errant and pederast Priests to heel might have been more quickly accomplished. I can't see Peter and Paul, and those that followed them looking only to Prayer to solve their problems. They were men and people of action too. I don't believe God designed the Flock to merely be Spectators.
This is the time of the "new" Pentecost. Laity are supposed to get involved, to speak up, to fight!
Your homepage radiates Grace.
Actually that is true.. about the communism....
HH is a complex man. He has no eartly superior. We cannot imagine the pressures and issues he faces. Perfect? Oh no, he would tell you that. The Vicar of Christ on Earth? Oh yes. Imagine that burden, just imagine it.
"LOL! Romulus, do you have a single word about the topic of the thread?"
What words of substance have you posted Deacon?
The pope is wrong.
It happens.
Here are four: Fight with somebody else.
I think both accounts are overblown and doubt the veracity of either,while leaving room for my being wrong.
On the chance that the post I am responding to was referencing yesterdays conversation,I pulled up both of your links and found no substantive source documents. They all go back to the conversation some blogger had with the former Mayor but gave much information for my chief occupation,playing "connect the dots". See my post # 67.
"Are the Faithful supposed to ignore his actions or the actions of his Bishops when they seem to go against what we were taught?"
I don't think so - do you?
"Has it been written that it is now ok (and I'm asking this seriously) to say Mass with a Buddha on the Altar, as some of those pictures posted here seem to indicate has been done? If those Masses were performed by some of His Bishops, and the placement of the Buddha was wrong, was that addressed anywhere, so the Faithful could learn what was really meant, or that an error occurred?"
The event you are referring to occurred, I believe, at Assisi I and it wasn't a Mass. A Catholic Church had been made available for buddhists to "worship" in and they placed their buddha statue on top of a tabernacle. I hope the tabernacle was empty, but it was still a sacrilege nevertheless. The Church should have been reconsecrated IMHO.
I dn't believe that there has ever been an official explanation or apology for this blasphemy.
"Are we supposed to not concern ourselves with the Clergy's actions?"
No
"It seems to me that if we had a less flaccid laity, bringing some of these errant and pederast Priests to heel might have been more quickly accomplished."
Yes
"I can't see Peter and Paul, and those that followed them looking only to Prayer to solve their problems. They were men and people of action too. I don't believe God designed the Flock to merely be Spectators."
I agree - we must all do what we can to fight heresy and heteropraxis wherever it occurs.
1 - I am not fighting,
2 - You posted to me on this thread,
3 - Your posts to me were noise, not substance,
4 - On this thread you challenge another poster's lack of substance,
5 - I point that out and ask you what subtance you've added,
6 - You then try to create a fight where none exists, why?
I'm taking a vacation from it.
I give you three days, tops.
Good night.
I understand, I've just returned from one, refreshed and ready to act as a Militant, a Church Militant. We'll miss you, we'll pray for you, and when you return, we'll do our best to help you. God Bless Deacon. While saving our canine chattels, pray for us whose souls are daily at risk.
As a friend I met on vacation would say, paxil tecum.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.