Posted on 08/09/2004 8:53:46 PM PDT by narses
Melinda Henneberger: At an Environment 2004 party on Beacon Hill Monday evening I ran into Francesco Rutelli, the popular former mayor of Rome, and asked him about rumors that he, a pro-choice Catholic of the Italian left, had nonetheless received communion from Pope John Paul II himself.
"Oh yes, this is true,'' he said, and asked to be walked though the controversy in the American Catholic Church, where some bishops have suggested that pro-choice politicians like John Kerry should be denied communion. "This is very strange for me,'' Rutelli said, "that you cannot be a Christian and also uphold the law of your country.''
"So, this is politics, too?'' he asked of the bishops, wryly suggesting that perhaps these American prelates were too far from Rome—and too close to Washington.
(Excerpt) Read more at 64.233.161.104 ...
Sure.
1. The Pope should not give communion to public figures who are known to support abortion.
2. The Pope's doctrinal authority comes from God and is in no sense compromised by his personal failures.
3. The Pope goes to confession regularly.
Your turn.
FWIW
Pope Pius XII, Allocution to Italian Midwives, October 29, 1951 "Every human being, even the infant in the mother's womb, has the right to life immediately from God, not from the parent or any human society or authority. Therefore there is no man, no human authority, no science, no medical, eugenic , social, economic or moral "indication" that can show or give valid juridical title for direct deliberate disposition concerning an innocent human life - which is to say, a disposition that aims at its destruction either as an end in itself or as the means of attaining another end that is perhaps in no way illicit in itself. Thus, for example, to save the life of the mother is a most noble end, but the direct killing of the child as a means to this end is not licit..."
Pope Pius XI "Those who hold the reins of government should not forget that it is the duty of public authority ... to defend the lives of the innocent ... among whom we must mention in the first place infants hidden in the mother's womb. And if the public magistrates ... do not defend them, but by their laws and ordinances betray them to death at the hands of doctors and others, let them remember that God is the Judge and Avenger of innocent blood which cries from earth to heaven" (Casti Connubii No. 67).
A stunning redaction of the truth to its opposite.
Please, I do not recoginze this quote. Is it your play on another quote?
How does the left work?Take an unsubstantiated item,hold it until the time is right,(three years,on this one)treat it as a fact,extrapolate,conflate,attribute and assume whatever is needed about any of the characters on either side that will illustrate the origiinal objective in putting it forth. Then introduce it to the larger public via any venue,link it and disseminate it far and wide,and sit back and watch it take on a life of its own.
How effective is it?Many,good,intelligent Catholics on this very thread are responding as if the article relayed enough factual information to merit discussion.
How do you make lemonade out of it?You use it to add to your knowledge base. The article does allow confirmation of the identity of certain usual suspects and connects them to media channels they use to further their agendas.
We see McCarrick,Pilarzcyk,John Allen,NPR,NCR,St.Anthony's Messinger,The Boston Globe,MSNBC,Terry Gross,Melinda Henneberger,a letter writer to Catholic World News,Kerry,the Environment 2004 committee,Mayor Rutelli and pro-choicers linked,albeit loosely in some cases,and spreading an unconfirmed report,now accepted as a fact,that the Pope gave communion to a pro-abort politician,ergo,the Pope advocates communion for unrepentent pro-abortion politicians.
What lesson can we learn? We should always remember that the left can magnify a piece of lint in an asphalt stadium parking lot to the point the unwary reader can imagine that the entire 7th Fleet has run aground and is marooned in the parking lot of the local football field. Might make most people just decide to stay home instead of attending the game,no?
"Is this relevant, or did Tony Blair unworthily present himself for Communion? To whom does the fault belong, Tony Blair for getting in line, or the Pope for not checking his ID?
If "Random Anglican" got into communion line at a Mass, would he be given Communion?"
Considering that:
a) it was a private Mass with invitation-only guests,
b) the Pope had spent time in one to one discussions with Blair and his entourage during the day,
c) the Pope knew that Blair had already been publicly forbidden from receiving Communion by Cardinal Hume.
d) it is known to the Pope that Blair is not only pro-abortion, but in no sense a Catholic.
there is hardly anything random about it.
This only got out into the public arena because the seminarians at the Venerable English College in Rome (who had also been invited to this Mass) were scandalised by the Holy Father's actions.
"Even more important, would false traditionalists use this as a justification for disobeying the Pope?"
You have it completely arse about tit! This is being used by ecumaniacs as a justification for disobeying Canon Law because the Pope has set a false precedent.
You're blaming the SSPX on the ongoing sacrileges performed by the Pope?
ROTFLMAO!
Does the Cardinal override the Pope?
Are you a Pope worshipper?
If he told you to pocket the Communion Host and pass it on to a satanist, I'd bet you'd do it.
Blind obedience and all that.
"Does the Cardinal override the Pope?"
If the Cardinal is upholding the Canon Law and discipline of the Church, and the Pope is compromising it, then yes he does - see St. Paul challenging St. Peter about his failing to uphold the Faith.
"Has it been independently validated? Did either the Pope or Blair confirm the story?"
That something happened was confirmed by an official Vatican spokesman - but only to say that it was a private matter for the Blair family which they were not prepared to discuss in public.
As he could easily have just denied that the Pope had given Communion to Blair, his failure to do this suggests that it did happen. As the seminarian is known to and reported the event personally to a priest who I know and trust, I have no reason to doubt it.
It will be one of those events which will be very difficult to obtain independent corroboration of due to the theoretically private nature of the circumstances.
However, the Eucharist was never meant to be the private play-thing of any Pope to flout the laws of Holy Mother Church with, when expedient to do so.
Not that the failings of a Pope justify disobedience against any legitimate and moral authority, however.
"Maybe there's a very good reason Ratzinger can't be more vocal about his instructions regarding the Eucharist."
Yep - because he knows at some point that someone will come back at him and say:
"Well, the Holy Father did it - and if its good enough for him, then its good enough for me!"
(A priest used this very argument against me when I said that joint prayer with muslims was wrong.)
Your powers of persuasion are stunning.
Not even Roman mayors??
While I am a big believer in "actions speak louder than words",I can't help but weigh the thousands and thousands of words and hundreds of documents the Pope has spoken,authored or signed off on,respectively on the Eucharist,against the ten second action,that at best did not occur,may have been a momentary lapse,a somewhat Pavlovian response to a waiting,would-be,communicant,and at worst was a decision made to avoid an embarrassing situation for Blair.
Given that,I can only think that any persons trying to use this to judge the Pope or the action is at least,inccredibly naive. There are five adjectives that I think are probably more accurate and more descriptive,but I am being very charitable today.
"While I am a big believer in "actions speak louder than words",I can't help but weigh the thousands and thousands of words and hundreds of documents the Pope has spoken,authored or signed off on,respectively on the Eucharist..."
Unfortunately not a single one of my parishoners takes the Catholic press - never mind reading a single word written by the the Pope amongst the thousands and thousands he has written.
Roughly one half of them, though, do take "The Times" and "The Telegraph" where his faux pas are reported in depth, if in ignorance. (I dread to think what the others read!!)
His actions are what are picked up on by most of the world's media - and hence by most of the world's Catholics. Consequently they speak far louder than his words and can be very damaging when he contravenes his own Codex.
sara, there is no way on this earth Blair and his protestant pro-death leftist wife would have even approached the Pope for communion unless they had arranged in advance that they would recieve it, and the Pope agreed to give it to them.
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