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Israel and the Church: the Differences
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Posted on 06/01/2004 9:12:10 AM PDT by fishtank

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Israel and the Church: the Differences

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by Thomas S. McCall, Th.D.

Dr. Thomas McCall Dr. Thomas McCall, the Senior Theologian of our ministry, has written many articles for the Levitt Letter. He holds a Th.M. in Old Testament studies and a Th.D. in Semitic languages and Old Testament. He has served as Zola’s co-author, mentor, pastor, and friend for nearly 30 years.

This article appeared orignally in the May 1996 Levitt Letter.

Page Contents (skip contents)

Introduction

One of the great theological battlegrounds of orthodox Christianity throughout the centuries has been the nature and character of the Church, especially in relation to its biblical predecessor, Israel. The two major views are that:

  1. The Church is a continuation of Israel
  2. The Church is completely different from Israel

First View: The Church is Israel

The predominant view has been that the Church is the “new” Israel, a continuation of the concept of Israel which began in the Old Testament. In this view, the Church is the refinement and higher development of the concept of Israel. All of the promises made to Israel in the Scriptures find their fulfillment in the Church. Thus, the prophecies relating to the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are “spiritualized” into promises of blessing to the Church. The prophecies of condemnation and judgment, though, are retained literally by the Jewish nation of Israel.

This view is sometimes called Replacement Theology, because the Church is seen to replace Israel in God’s economy. One of the problems with the view, among others, is the continuing existence of the Jewish people, especially with regard to the revival of the new modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned to extinction, and there is no divinely ordained future for the Jewish nation, how does one account for the supernatural survival of the Jewish people since the establishment of the Church, for almost 2,000 years against all odds? Furthermore, how does one account for Israel’s resurgence among the family of nations as an independent nation, victorious in several wars and flourishing economically?

Second View: Israel and the Church are Different

The other view, we believe, is clearly taught in the New Testament, but it has been suppressed throughout most of Church history. This view is that the Church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two should not be confused. In fact, the Church is an entirely new creation that came into being on the Day of Pentecost after Christ’s resurrection from the dead, and will continue until it is taken to Heaven at the Rapture return of the Lord (Eph. 1:9-11). None of the curses or blessings pronounced upon Israel refer directly to the Church. The Church enters into the Abrahamic and New Covenants, for instance, only by divine application, not by original interpretation (Matt 26:28).

This leaves all the covenants, promises, and warnings to Israel intact. Israel, the natural Jewish nation, is still Israel. To be sure, Israel has been side-lined during these past 1,900 years of the Diaspora. The Church has taken center stage in the Lord’s affairs as the Gospel has spread throughout the world. Nevertheless, God has carefully preserved the Jewish people, even in unbelief, through every kind of distress and persecution. Sometimes, the professing Church itself (I speak to our shame) has been a cause of these persecutions to the Jews.

Not only has God preserved the Jewish nation, but He has also kept His promise to save a remnant of Israel in every generation. The remnant of Israel in this age are the Jewish believers in Christ who have joined the Gentile believers, and form the Church, the Body of Christ (Rom. 11:5). In this respect, then, a part of Israel (the believing remnant) intersects with the Church during the Church Age. But this does not make Israel the Church, or vice versa.

In the future, both God’s warnings and promises to Israel will come to pass. After the Lord is finished with the Church Age, and has taken the Church to Heaven in the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:16-18), God will restore Israel to center stage on the world’s divine theater. First comes the devastating “Time of Jacob’s Trouble” (Jer. 30:7) also known as the Great Tribulation. This is a dreadful period of seven years, which begins relatively lightly during the first half, but intensifies into full focus during the latter half. During this time the world is judged for rejecting Christ, but, more specifically, Israel is judged, purged and prepared through the fiery trials of the Great Tribulation for the Second Coming of the Messiah. This is the bad news.

The good news is that, when Christ does return to the earth at the end of the Tribulation, Israel will be ready, willing, and eager to receive Him, and proclaim, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord” (Matt. 23:39). As the stumbling of Israel brought blessing to the world at Christ’s First Coming, the reception of Israel to Christ at His Second Advent will be like “life from the dead” (Rom. 11:15). The remnant of Israel which survives the Tribulation (some one-third of the Jewish people who enter the Tribulation), will be saved, and the Lord will establish His kingdom on the same earth and the same capital city, Jerusalem, that rejected Him centuries before. Israel will be the head of the nations, and no longer the tail, and all nations will send representatives to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Isa. 2:2-3; Micah 4:1). The Church will return with Christ, and will rule with Him for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-5). He Himself told His disciples that they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel in the restoration (Matt. 19:28). Thus, Israel has not been forgotten in God’s plan. While the Jewish nation still has a dark period facing it, there is a glorious finale to Israel’s long history.

How Did the Church Decide the Demise of Israel?

The New Testament Church was very much involved with the vicissitudes of Israel. Jesus is an Israeli, as were all the apostles, and the concerns of Israel, spiritually and politically, were very much a part of their lives. The greatest struggles the early Church had were over the relationship between Israel and the Church, law and grace, and the fellowship between Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ (Galatians). Many of the Jewish believers were not comfortable with the Gentile believers at first; and as time went on and Gentiles began to predominate numerically, the attitudes were reversed. Galatians shows how the Jewish party tried to impose the Mosaic Law on Gentile Christians, and Romans shows how the Gentile party began to “boast against the branches” (Rom. 11:18), resenting the place of Israel in history and theology.

It took some time, perhaps a couple of centuries, but eventually the vast Gentile majority in the Church began to view Israel as a vestigial organ that had outlived its usefulness. In fact, the predominant Christian view was that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Romans in 70 AD signaled the official and divinely-ordained end of the Jewish nation, never more to be re-instituted as a national entity. The fact that Jerusalem lay in ruins and the Jewish people were scattered over the world was seen as conclusive evidence that God was forever finished with national Israel. If there were any purpose for the existence of the Jewish people, it was to remind the world of the severe judgment of God upon a disobedient people.

If this harsh view of Israel were true, though, what of the promises of God to Israel in the Old Testament? For those who claimed to believe in the entire Bible as the Word of God, this was a great problem. How could a faithful God not keep His promises to His ancient people? To deal with this took extraordinary theological dexterity and alchemy. The theologians had to propose that Israel in the Scriptures did not really mean Israel, especially when it came to the promises of eternal blessing. Instead, Israel meant something else, something that came to be known in the New Testament as the Church. The Church became the new Israel, and through this remarkable transformation, wherever blessing is promised to Israel in the Old Testament, it was interpreted to mean the Church. This is Replacement Theology, in which the Church has become Israel.

Replacement Theology was already around before the end of the First Century, but did not become the official position of professing Christian leadership until Augustine popularized the concept, primarily in THE CITY OF GOD, in the latter part of the Fourth Century. Augustine actually states that he was previously a Chiliast, meaning that he was a believer in the thousand-year reign of Christ on the earth after His return. This is the same as our current description of Premillennialism. However, he had come to the conclusion that this view was “carnal,” and had adopted the view that the reign of Christ would be something more “spiritual,” and would actually occur during the Church Age. Such a view necessitated the extinction of Israel, and the cancellation of all promises God made to the Jewish nation. These promises of blessing would now be fulfilled within the framework of the Church.

This view, which had been latent in Christendom, now flourished throughout the Byzantine world. From this point on, the theological legs were cut out from under Israel, and the predominant Christian theology was that there was no future for Israel. Replacement Theology has been the rule that has survived the Middle Ages, the Crusades and the Reformation in Church History. Only during the last Century or so has the Premillennial concept of the future of Israel come to the forefront in evangelical Christianity. Even so, it is a minority view.

Does Israel’s Future Demean the Church’s Glory?

Some suggest that if Israel has not ceased to exist in its covenant relationship to God, and if Israel still has a future in the divine plan, this somehow diminishes the position of the Church. Is such a concern valid? It is almost as though the Church has been jealous of Israel, and afraid that if it recognized Israel’s future promises, it would somehow demean Christ and the Church. Nothing could be further from the truth.

It is when the Church recognizes Israel that the true distinctiveness and glory of the Body of Christ becomes evident. This called-out body, composed of believing Jews and Gentiles during the Church Age, is the highest entity the Lord has created, superior to the universe, all the Angels, the nations, and Israel. Our Head, our Husband, our Friend is the Son of God Himself. We shall reign with Him when He rules the earth, and our 12 Founding Apostles will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. The Angels themselves will study us forever as the greatest exhibit of God’s grace, and we will actually judge the Angels. This is our destiny, and this writer, for one, would not trade his position in the Body of Christ with any creature in the universe! Why, then, be disturbed over what God has promised the Jewish people? Why be jealous over the future destiny of Israel? How short sighted of us! Indeed, the Church’s finest and most distinctive hour will be when Israel is restored nationally and spiritually to the Lord at the Second Coming of Christ. We will return from Heaven with Him as His glorious Bride to rule Israel and the world. What more could we ask?

So, if we are not to suffer from spiritual myopia, we must recognize what the Lord is doing with Israel, not shrinking from it as though our own interests will be overshadowed. Rather, we rejoice in these developments, with full assurance that our own redemption draws ever closer.

This article is scheduled to appear in the Dictionary of Premillennial Theology, to be published by Kregel Publications.

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Sorry for the formatting.

I tried.

1 posted on 06/01/2004 9:12:13 AM PDT by fishtank
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To: fishtank

Extremely interesting.

I've never thought much about it. Before reading this article if I had to categorized myself I would have said the church is a continuation of Israel. However, I find myself in complete agreement with the author that we are a replacement of Israel. It makes perfect sense.


2 posted on 06/01/2004 9:30:27 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: fishtank
Amen!..........................BTTT

(Romans 10:17)

3 posted on 06/01/2004 9:37:43 AM PDT by maestro
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To: fishtank

Israel and the Church

by Jack Van Deventer

    Modern premillennialism teaches that God has not one, but two separate peoples of God, Israel and the Church. This teaching, known as dispensationalism, was developed in the 1830's by J.N. Darby. Darby, seeking to legitimize his newly created rapture theory and its two "second comings," divided up the Bible into passages for Israel and the Church. [1]According to traditional dispensationalism, Jesus came to deliver the kingdom to the Jews, but the Jews rejected Him and caused Him to die on the cross. Thus, Christ's death on the cross was not part of God's plan. [2] As a result, the coming of the kingdom was postponed until the second coming of Christ and is not present today except in "mystery form." [3]Christ's rejection caused a "parenthesis" in time in which the "prophetic clock" stopped ticking. [4] Because the Jews rejected the Messiah, God created the Church as a Plan B that dispensationalists claim was wholly unanticipated, even by the Old Testament prophets. [5]

    The implications of dispensationalism as historically put forth may surprise those who have been taught this form of premillennialism. According to dispensationalism, the millennium is fundamentally Jewish in nature such that the Jews will be "exalted above the Gentiles." [6]The Gentiles will "be on the lowest level" in Christ's rule. [7]In addition, despite Christ's ultimate sacrifice as "the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," dispensationalism teaches that the sacrificial system will be reinstituted! [8]

    Regarding dispensationalism's distinctive doctrine that Israel and the Church are two separate peoples of God, it should first be noted that such teaching is a radical departure from historic Christianity. According to Gerstner, "Historically speaking, this dispensational denial of the unity of Israel and the church represents a surprising novelty. From the earliest period of Christian theology onward, the essential continuity of Israel and the church has been maintained. This historic doctrine of the church is based on both the clear implication of Old Testament texts and the clear teaching of the New Testament." [9] For example, early Church fathers such as Papias, Clement, Barnabas, Hermas, and Justin Martyr believed that the Church inherited God's promises to Israel. [10]
 
     Christ's death was not an unfortunate accident brought on by the unanticipated rejection by the Jews. On the contrary, speaking of the cross, Jesus said "But for this purpose I came to this hour" (John 12:27). The Church is not a parenthesis lying between God's two dealings with national Israel, but rather the Church is the body of Christ and is therefore the "fullness of God" (Eph. 1:22,23). [11] Rather than being entirely future, the kingdom is a present and growing reality (Matt. 12:28; Col. 1:13). Contrary to dispensational claims, the Church was very much a part of God's plan from the beginning. Romans 9:22-26 (which cites Hosea 1:10) states that the children of Israel, both Jews and Gentiles, will be as the sand of the sea, too numerous to measure or number. That the Gentiles would be included among God's people was God's plan even before the cross (see Amos 9:11 and Acts 15:16-17).

    As Provan points out, the Bible uses the same terms to describe both Israel and the Church, proving that those of the household of faith are one and the same. Both are called the beloved of God, the children of God, the field of God, the flock of God, the house of God, the people of God, the vineyard of God, the wife of God, the children of Abraham, the chosen people, and the circumcised. [12] This presents a dilemma for the dispensationalists. Does God have two chosen peoples? two flocks? two wives? The Bible is clear on this point, "There is neither Jew nor Greek... for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal 3:28).

    The fact that Jewish names such as "children of Abraham" and "the circumcised" are used to describe the Church further accentuates the reality of the church as spiritual Israel. Indeed, Christians are called "the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16). Whereas Israel was to be "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation," now to the church God says, "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God" (1 Pet. 2:9-10).

    The Jews rejected Christ, shouting, "Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!" and "We have no king but Caesar!" (John 19:15). Anticipating this rejection, Jesus warned them in parable that "the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it" (Matt. 21:43). In condemnation He warned that upon them would "come all the righteous blood shed on the earth" (Matt. 23:35) and that this judgment would happen "upon this generation" (Matt. 23:36). This prophecy was fulfilled in A.D. 70 when Jerusalem was laid waste by armies under Roman command and the temple was destroyed such that not one stone was left upon another (Matt. 24:2).

    The rejection of the Jews will not be permanent, however. As the gospel spreads and the nations are discipled, the Jews will respond in faith when the "fullness of the Gentiles" takes place (Romans 11:25). Genetic Israel will be converted to Christ and this conversion will be a great blessing to the world (Romans 11:11-12, 15, 23-27).
 
 

Endnotes
1 Ernest R. Sandeen, British and American Millen-narianism1800-1930 (Chicago: The Univ. of Chic. Press, 1970), p. 63, 66.
2 Clarence Larkin, Rightly Dividing the Word (Philadelphia, PA: C. Larkin, 1921).
3 John F. Walvoord, in Wesley R. Willis and John R. Master(General Editors), Issues in Dispensationalism (Chicago, Moody Press,1994), p. 80.
4 Charles Caldwell Ryrie, The Basis of the PremillennialFaith (Neptune, NJ: Loizeaux Bros, 1953) p. 136.
5 Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas,TX: Dallas Seminary Press, 1948) Vol. 4, pp. 40-41.
6 John Walvoord, The Millennial Kingdom (Grand Rapids,MI: Zondervan, 1959), p. 136.
7 Herman Hoyt, "Dispensational Premillennialsim," in Robert G. Clouse, The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views(Downer's Grove, IL: Inter Varsity Press, 1977), p. 81.
8 J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1958), p. 525.
9 John H. Gerstner, Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth(Brentwood, TN: Wogemuth & Hyatt, 1991) p. 186. Dispensationalist AlanPatrick Boyd agreed, stating "The majority of the writers/writings in thisperiod completely identify Israel with the Church" (in "A Dispensational Premillennial Analysis of the Eschatology of the Post-Apostolic Fathers [Until the Death of Justin Martyr]," unpublished master's thesis, Dallas Theological Seminary, 1977, p. 47).
10 Greg L. Bahnsen and Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., House Divided, The Break-Upof Dispensational Theology (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics,1989), p. 173, 174.
11 William E. Cox, An Examination of Dispensationalism, (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presb. and Ref. Publ. Co.) p. 44.
12 Charles D. Provan, The Church is Israel Now (Vallecito, CA: Ross House Books, 1987). 

4 posted on 06/01/2004 9:46:51 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: fishtank

The Church Is Israel Now

By Charles D. Provan

Excerpts adapted for the web, 1997

     During this century, Christians have been told over and over that "God has an unconditional love for Old Testament Israel," by which is meant that God's love is directed toward persons racially descended from Abraham, regardless of faith or obedience. Membership in Israel, therefore, is viewed as a matter of race, not faith.

     The Church Is Israel Now demonstrates that the Bible totally repudiates this racialist viewpoint. Being a member of Israel in the Old Testament was dependent upon faith and obedience to God. When the Israelites obeyed God, God loved them. But when the Israelites turned from him, He hated them, stripping them of their Israelite status. After centuries of Israelite rebellion against God, culminating in their rejection of Jesus the Messiah, the titles, attributes and blessings of Israel were transferred to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and to no one else, regardless of Abrahamic descent. The Church is Israel Now.

Jesus said to the "chief priests and elders of the [Jewish] people":
Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and
given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
Matt. 21:43

Jesus said to His disciples:
Do not fear, little flock, for it is the Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
Luke 12:32

OLD TESTAMENT TITLES AND ATTRIBUTES OF ISRAEL WHICH ARE, IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, REFERRED TO THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH

THE BELOVED OF GOD
A) Israel Is Beloved Of God:
- Ex. 15:13, Deut. 33:3, Ezra 3:11
B) Disobedient Israel Is Not Beloved Of God:
- Lev. 3:16, Jer. 12:8, Jer. 16:5, Hos. 9:15
C) Christians Are Beloved Of God:
- Rom. 9:25, Eph. 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1

THE CHILDREN OF GOD
A) Israel Are The Children Of God:
- Ex. 4:22, Deut. 14:1, Isa. 1:2,4, Isa. 1:2,4, Isa. 63:8, Hos. 11:1
B) Disobedient Israel Are Not The Children Of God:
- Deut. 32:5, John 8:39, 42, 44
C) Christians Are The Children Of God:
- John 1:12, John 11:52, Rom. 8:14,16, 2 Cor. 6:18, Gal. 3:26, Gal. 4:5,6,7, Phil. 2:15, 1 John 3:1

THE FIELD OF GOD
A) Israel Is The Field Of God:
- Jer. 12:10
B) Christians Are The Field Of God:
- 1 Cor. 3:9

THE FLOCK OF GOD AND OF THE MESSIAH
A) Israel Is The Flock Of God And Of The Messiah:
- Psa. 78:52, Psa. 80:1, Isa. 40:11, Jer. 23:1,2,3, Jer. 31:10, Eze. 34:12,15,16, Mic. 5:4, Zec. 10:3
B) Christians Are The Flock Of God And Of The Messiah:
- John 10:14,16, Heb. 13:20, 1 Pet. 2:25, 1 Pet. 5:2,3

THE HOUSE OF GOD
A) Israel Is The House Of God:
- Num. 12:7
B) Christians Are The House Of God:
- 1 Tim. 3:15, Heb. 3:2,5,6, Heb. 10:21, 1 Pet. 4:17

THE KINGDOM OF GOD
A) Israel Is The Kingdom Of God:
- Ex. 19:6, 1 Chr. 17:14, 1 Chr. 28:5
B) Disobedient Israel Is Not The Kingdom Of God:
- Matt. 8:11,12, Matt. 21:43
C) Christians Are The Kingdom Of God:
- Rom. 14:17, 1 Cor. 4:20, Col. 1:13, Col. 4:11, Rev. 1:6

THE PEOPLE OF GOD
A) The Israelites Are The People Of God:
- Ex. 6:7, Deut. 27:9, 2 Sam. 7:23, Jer. 11:4
B) Disobedient Israelites Are Not The People Of God:
- Hos. 1:9, Jer. 5:10
C) The Christians Are The People Of God:
- Rom. 9:25, 2 Cor. 6:16, Eph. 4:12, Eph. 5:3, 2 Th. 1:10, Tit. 2:14

THE PRIESTS OF GOD
A) The Israelites Are The Priests Of God:
- Ex. 19:6
B) Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Priests Of God:
- 1 Sam. 2:28,30, Lam. 4:13,16, Eze. 44:10,13, Hos. 4:6, Mal. 2:2,4,8,9
C) The Christians Are The Priests Of God:
- 1 Pet. 2:5,9, Rev. 1:6, Rev. 5:10

THE VINEYARD OF GOD
A) Israel Is The Vineyard Of God:
- Isa. 5:3,4,5,7, Jer. 12:10
B) Christians Are The Vineyard Of God:
- Luke 20:16

THE WIFE (OR BRIDE) OF GOD
A) Israel Is The Wife (Or Bride) Of God:
- Isa. 54:5,6, Jer. 2:2, Eze. 16:32, Hos. 1:2
B) Disobedient Israelites Is Not The Wife (Or Bride) Of God:
- Jer. 3:8, Hos. 2:2
C) The Christians Are The Wife (Or Bride) Of God:
- 2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:31,32

THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM
A) The Israelites Are The Children Of Abraham:
- 2 Chr. 20:7, Psa. 105:6, Isa. 41:8
B) Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Children Of Abraham:
- John 8:39, Rom. 9:6,7, Gal. 4:25,30
C) The Christians Are The Children Of Abraham:
- Rom. 4:11,16, Gal. 3:7,29, Gal. 4:23,28,31

THE CHOSEN PEOPLE
A) The Israelites Are The Chosen People:
- Deut. 7:7, Deut. 10:15, Deut. 14:2, Isa. 43:20,21
B) Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Chosen People:
- Deut. 31:17, 2 Ki. 17:20, 2 Chr. 25:7, Psa. 78:59, Jer. 6:30, Jer. 7:29, Jer. 14:10
C) The Christians Are The Chosen People:
- Col. 3:12, 1 Pet. 2:9

THE CIRCUMCISED
A) The Israelites Are The Circumcised:
- Gen. 17:10, Jud. 15:18
B) Disobedient Israelites Are Not The Circumcised:
- Jer. 9:25,26, Rom. 2:25,28, Phil. 3:2
C) The Christians Are The Circumcised:
- Rom. 2:29, Phil. 3:3, Col. 2:11

ISRAEL
A) Israel is Israel
B) Disobedient Israelites Are Not Israelites:
- Num. 15:30,31, Deut. 18:19, Acts 3:23, Rom. 9:6
C) The Christians Are Israel:
- John 11:50,51,52, 1 Cor. 10:1, Gal. 6:15,16, Eph. 2:12,19

JERUSALEM
A) Jerusalem Is the City And Mother Of Israel:
- Psa. 149:2, Isa. 12:6, Isa. 49:18,20,22, Isa. 51:18, Lam. 4:2
B) Jerusalem Is The City And Mother Of Christians:
- Gal. 4:26, Heb. 12:22

THE JEWS
A) Israelites Are Jews
- Ezr. 5:1, Jer. 34:8,9, Zech. 8:22,23
B) Disobedient Israelites Are Not Jews:
- Rom. 2:28, Rev. 2:9, Rev. 3:9
C) The Christians Are Jews:
- Rom. 2:29

THE NEW COVENANT
A) The New Covenant Is With Israel:
- Jer. 31:31,33
B) The New Covenant Is With The Christians:
- Luke 22:20, 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:6,8,10

AN OLIVE TREE
A) Israel Is An Olive Tree:
- Jer. 11:16, Hos. 14:6
B) The Christians Are An Olive Tree:
- Rom. 11:24

 

OLD TESTAMENT VERSES REFERRING TO ISRAEL WHICH ARE QUOTED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT AS REFERRING TO THE CHRISTIANS

QUOTE #1
- Lev. 26:11,12, Eze. 37:27, 2 Cor. 6:16

QUOTE #2
- Deut. 30:12-14, Rom. 10:6-8

QUOTE #3
- Deut. 31:6, Heb. 13:5

QUOTE #4
- Deut. 32:36, Psa. 135:14, Heb. 10:30

QUOTE #5
- Psa. 22:22, Heb. 2:12

QUOTE #6
- Psa. 44:22, Rom. 8:36

QUOTE #7
- Psa. 95:7-11, Heb. 3:7-11

QUOTE #8
- Psa. 130:8, Tit. 2:14

QUOTE #9
- Isa. 28:16, Rom. 10:11, Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:6

QUOTE #10
- Isa. 49:8, 2 Cor. 6:2

QUOTE #11
- Isa. 52:7, Rom. 10:15

QUOTE #12
- Isa. 54:1, Gal. 4:27

QUOTE #13
- Jer. 31:31-34, Heb. 8:8-12

QUOTE #14
- Hos. 1:10; 2:23, Rom. 9:25-26, 1 Pet. 2:10

QUOTE #15
- Hos. 13:14, 1 Cor. 15:55

QUOTE #16
- Joel. 2:32, Rom. 10:13


5 posted on 06/01/2004 9:52:43 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: fishtank
Interesting. It does make sense in that God gave 2 distinct promises to Abraham. One that He would multiply the seed "as the stars of the heaven", this being the first promise, symbolizing a spiritual seed (Christianity). The second that the descendants would be "as the sand which is upon the seas shore" (Genesis 22:17) making a physical or earthly seed (the nation Israel). The idea makes sense because Paul talks of a nation Israel in Romans and doesn't speak of the church in that way. The only thing I would disagree with is the rapture theory but that's for a different discussion.
Have you ever read "Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright" by J.H Allen? It deals with the promises given to Israel and also deals with the "lost" tribes of Israel.
6 posted on 06/01/2004 9:58:26 AM PDT by massiveblob
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To: All
If y'all are so eager to be Jews, you are welcome to convert.
7 posted on 06/01/2004 10:31:31 AM PDT by malakhi (America was founded by those who mistrusted authority.)
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To: fishtank
This leaves all the covenants, promises, and warnings to Israel intact. Israel, the natural Jewish nation, is still Israel.

Though I agree with the author that Israel and the church are different, I think he errs when making this assumption. Israel was judged in 70 A.D., and it wasn't pretty. IMO, the only similarity between the Israel of the OT and the current, secular state is the name.

8 posted on 06/01/2004 10:53:55 AM PDT by asformeandformyhouse (Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.)
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To: massiveblob
Have you ever read "Judah's Sceptre and Joseph's Birthright" by J.H Allen? It deals with the promises given to Israel and also deals with the "lost" tribes of Israel.

This is the old British-Israelism theory later reinvented by HW Armstrong and the old Worldwide Church of God.

News Flash: The ten tribes of Israel we never "lost".

9 posted on 06/01/2004 10:57:53 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; fishtank

Well, that's what I always thought. I guess I'm not a dispensationalist.

Fishtank...you trying to confuse me????? :O)


10 posted on 06/01/2004 11:43:04 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: topcat54

I prefer the Bible to any other article.



Israel is distinct from the church.



NASB

Romans 9

Solicitude for Israel

1 (1) I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit,
2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart.
3 For (2) I could wish that I myself were (3) accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen (4) according to the flesh,
4 who are (5) Israelites, to whom belongs (6) the adoption as sons, and (7) the glory and (8) the covenants and (9) the giving of the Law and (10) the temple service and (11) the promises,
5 whose are (12) the fathers, and (13) from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, (14) who is over all, (15) God (16) blessed forever. Amen.
6 But it is not as though (17) the word of God has failed. (18) For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
7 nor are they all children (19) because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "(20) THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are (21) children of God, but the (22) children of the promise are regarded as descendants.
9 For this is the word of promise: "(23) AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON."
10 (24) And not only this, but there was (25) Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;
11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that (26) God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12 it was said to her, "(27) THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER."
13 Just as it is written, "(28) JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
14 (29) What shall we say then? (30) There is no injustice with God, is there? (31) May it never be!
15 For He says to Moses, "(32) I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who (33) runs, but on (34) God who has mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "(35) FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He (36) hardens whom He desires.
19 (37) You will say to me then, "(38) Why does He still find fault? For (39) who resists His will?"
20 On the contrary, who are you, (40) O man, who (41) answers back to God? (42) The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much (43) patience vessels of wrath (44) prepared for destruction?
23 And He did so to make known (45) the riches of His glory upon (46) vessels of mercy, which He (47) prepared beforehand for glory,
24 even us, whom He also (48) called, (49) not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
25 As He says also in Hosea,
"(50) I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,'
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'"
26
"(51) AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,'
THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF (52) THE LIVING GOD."
27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "(53) THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE (54) LIKE THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS (55) THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED;
28 (56) FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY."
29 And just as Isaiah foretold,
"(57) UNLESS (58) THE LORD OF SABAOTH HAD LEFT TO US A POSTERITY,
(59) WE WOULD HAVE BECOME LIKE SODOM, AND WOULD HAVE RESEMBLED GOMORRAH."
30 (60) What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even (61) the righteousness which is by faith;
31 but Israel, (62) pursuing a law of righteousness, did not (63) arrive at that law.
32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over (64) the stumbling stone,
33 just as it is written,
"(65) BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION (66) A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
(67) AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM (68) WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."


Romans 10


The Word of Faith Brings Salvation

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
2 For I testify about them that they have (69) a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
3 For not knowing about (70) God's righteousness and (71) seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
4 For (72) Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to (73) everyone who believes.
5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law (74) shall live by that righteousness.
6 But (75) the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "(76) DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE (77) ABYSS?' (that is, to (78) bring Christ up from the dead)."
8 But what does it say? "(79) THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that (80) if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and (81) believe in your heart that (82) God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "(83) WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For (84) there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is (85) Lord of (86) all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "(87) WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him (88) whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without (89) a preacher?
15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "(90) HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO (91) BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
16 However, they (92) did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "(93) LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
17 So faith comes from (94) hearing, and hearing by (95) the word of Christ.
18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;
"(96) THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH,
AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."
19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says,
"(97) I WILL (98) MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION,
BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU."
20 And Isaiah is very bold and says,
"(99) I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME,
I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME."
21 But as for Israel He says, "(100) ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."


Romans 11


Israel Is Not Cast Away

1 I say then, God has not (101) rejected His people, has He? (102) May it never be! For (103) I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God (104) has not rejected His people whom He (105) foreknew. (106) Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
3 "Lord, (107) THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
4 But what is the divine response to him? "(108) I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (109) a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
6 But (110) if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
7 What then? What (111) Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (112) hardened;
8 just as it is written,
"(113) GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
9 And David says,
"(114) LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10
"(115) LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."
11 (116) I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? (117) May it never be! But by their transgression (118) salvation has come to the Gentiles, to (119) make them jealous.
12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their (120) fulfillment be!
13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as (121) I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
14 if somehow I might (122) move to jealousy (123) my fellow countrymen and (124) save some of them.
15 For if their rejection is the (125) reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but (126) life from the dead?
16 If the (127) first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17 But if some of the (128) branches were broken off, and (129) you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that (130) it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 (131) You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you (132) stand by your faith. (133) Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's (134) kindness, (135) if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also (136) will be cut off.
23 And they also, (137) if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For (138) I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this (139) mystery--so that you will not be (140) wise in your own estimation--that a partial (141) hardening has happened to Israel until the (142) fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"(143) THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
27
"(144) THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
(145) WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are (146) enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for (147) the sake of the fathers;
29 for the gifts and the (148) calling of God (149) are irrevocable.
30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience,
31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy.
32 For (150) God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33 Oh, the depth of (151) the riches both of the (152) wisdom and knowledge of God! (153) How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
34 For (154) WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR?
35 Or (155) WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN?
36 For (156) from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. (157) To Him be the glory forever. Amen.


11 posted on 06/01/2004 12:13:44 PM PDT by fishtank
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To: fishtank; drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; jboot; ...

I think the simplest way of looking at it is this: the true chosen people of God always have been and always will be the Elect. People were saved by grace through faith in the OT just as they are today.


12 posted on 06/01/2004 12:14:01 PM PDT by sheltonmac ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." -Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: Preech1
Ping...
Thought this might interest you.
13 posted on 06/01/2004 12:18:01 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: fishtank
Israel is distinct from the church.
I agree. Israel was told on many occasions to destroy every living thing when they moved into an area. That would be a pretty ineffective way for His Church to carry out "the Great Commission"!
14 posted on 06/01/2004 12:49:53 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: fishtank
I prefer the Bible to any other article.

Wait a minute. Weren't you the one that started this with an article from Zola Levitt Ministries?

Besides, the one post I gave was all Scripture references.

15 posted on 06/01/2004 12:54:03 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: GrandEagle
I agree. Israel was told on many occasions to destroy every living thing when they moved into an area. That would be a pretty ineffective way for His Church to carry out "the Great Commission"!

God's people were also told at one time to worship God by killing animals. Times change. The Messiah has come. The kingdom is universal and spiritual.

For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

16 posted on 06/01/2004 12:57:51 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: sheltonmac
I think the simplest way of looking at it is this: the true chosen people of God always have been and always will be the Elect. People were saved by grace through faith in the OT just as they are today.

Well, that has certainly been the majority view of the church, esp. covenant theology, for centuries. I was not until dispensationalism came along and "rightly divided" the people of God into two camps, one heavenly and the other earthly.

17 posted on 06/01/2004 1:10:31 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
I believe that Gods promises are everlasting. He made many promises to the nation of Israel. If they failed to obey his instructions he offered consequences. One of those is that he would scatter them. This has happened. But He will gather Israel back together at the very end, after the "Times of the Gentiles" has ended.

Matt 20:
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Here in Romans reference is made to there being no difference between the Jew and the Greek. This is very true, but the context reveals that the discussion revolved around those who thought that the Jewish people were Saved by obediance to the law instead of by the Grace of God.

Romans 10: 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Through out the Scripture there have been different peoples that God dealt with differently. The plan of Salvation however, has never changed. It is the same for all.
18 posted on 06/01/2004 1:23:25 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: GrandEagle
One of those is that he would scatter them. This has happened. But He will gather Israel back together at the very end, after the "Times of the Gentiles" has ended.

But the verses you quoted in Luke 21 (not Matthew 20) say nothing about a regathering of national Israel in the middle east after the "times of the Gentiles are fulfilled". Somehow this notion of future regathering gets inserted without explicit scriptural support.

Besides, why do so many say that the state of Israel today is a fulfillment of this supposed regathering? Have the "times of the Gentiles" been fulfilled? Or is that just wishful thinking that it will happen "real soon now"?

Jesus didn't just say that Israel would be scattered. He said that the kingdom would be taken away from them and given to another more deserving. This is a big change from all the warnings of the prophets under the old covenant. "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!"

19 posted on 06/01/2004 2:09:20 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
News Flash: The ten tribes of Israel we never "lost".

Yes, I know they were never lost. I put quotes around "lost" because that's the way people refer to them, even though it is in error. It could be that Israel still exist as a nation to fulfill certain promises made to him even though he as fallen from grace, but spiritually the Church is Israel, not physically.

By the way what do you think about that "old British-Israelism" theory?

20 posted on 06/01/2004 2:09:30 PM PDT by massiveblob
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