Disturbing excerpts from interview with Cardinal Mahony (leftist in charge of LA Diocese)

RE Congress website ^ | 02-20-04 | online interview

[AAABEST]

Leonel M: Mel Gibson's upcoming movie "The Passion of the Christ" has had more than its share of headlines for the last year or more. But what is the relationship of Gibson's church near Malibu to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles? Is it part of a schismatic group?

Cardinal: I know nothing about the Church in Malibu. It is certainly not in communion with the Universal Catholic Church nor the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

I have never met Mr. Gibson, and he does not participate in any parish of this Archdiocese. He, apparently, has chosen to live apart from the communion of the Catholic Church. I pray for him.

The Holy Spirit is promised to the Church, as well as the presence of Jesus: "Behold, I am with you all days until the end of the world." Those words were spoken to the Church, not to an individual in any century.

Moderator: We have several related questions about Mel Gibson; I'll try to summarize them. Many people have the impression that Mel Gibson is -- for lack of a better word -- a "regular" Catholic. Could you briefly explain the Catholic traditionalist movement?

Cardinal: Actually, there is no such thing as the "Catholic traditionalist, modernist, movement." Either one is in full communion with the Catholic Church, in unity with the Successor of Peter, or not. One cannot pick and choose which Pope to follow, especially dead ones, or which teaching to follow -- and then set aside the rest. Such people may be very nice people, but that doesn't make them "Catholic" in the true sense.

Even the media is beginning "to get it" about these groups. We must give full assent to the Creed and all that the Church teaches.

Moderator: So if Mel Gibson does not accept the Church's teachings as outlined in Vatican II documents, he's "not Catholic in the true sense"?

Cardinal: The Sixteen Documents of the Second Vatican Council constitute the accurate, authentic teaching of the Church. Those teachings are now contained in the Catechism of the Church. If one chooses to set aside any of those, then they choose to separate themselves from the unity of the Church. Keep in mind that the first temptation of Adam and Eve was precisely this: Satan told them, "you will be like gods, choosing good and evil." Wrong.

Moderator: Users also ask if you plan to see "The Passion of the Christ."

Cardinal: Someone has offered to give me a VHS of the movie, and I will view it.

Runecaster95: Is it acceptable for Catholics to participate in acts of devotion such as Zen meditation and Hindu chanting, providing the emphasis remains on Christ?

Cardinal: Any form of prayer and meditation that helps us deepen our life in Jesus Christ is a positive. We might call the same type of prayer "centering prayer," or "Christian mantra."

Jane M.: Who do you think goes to heaven? Do you think people of other religions will be there? Do people who haven't accepted Christ as their savior go to heaven when they die?

Cardinal: As the Second Vatican Council teaches us, it is the Church's belief that everyone goes to heaven "through the salvific merits of Jesus Christ." Therefore, if they belong to another faith community, we believe that it is still the merits of Jesus' Paschal Mystery that enables them to reach the Kingdom of God.

Keep in mind that each of us "chooses" our final destiny, and God continually calls to us to return home.

[ultima ratio]

Actually nobody has to excommunicate the Cardinal. He excommunicates himself by apostasy.

[Aliska]

Chinese Turtle - believed to hold the world on its back
Falling man
A footprint
Tree of Jesse - Jesse was the father of King David, the Jewish Messiah was said to be a new shoot from the Tree of Jesse.
Dolphin - symbol of Christ the Savior
I Ching symbol
Chumash depiction of the California condor
Griffin - symbolizes the relationship between psychic energy and cosmic force, and associated with forces of ambivalence, representing both the Savior and the Antichrist.
Virgin of Loreto with the Litany of Loreto
Virgin of Montserrat
Virgin of Guadalupe
Virgin of the Rosary of Pomata
Virgin of the Candlestick and Virgins of Belen
Virgin of Mercy
Apocalyptic Virgin
Divine Shepherdess
Deposition
Mater Dolorosa
La Mano Todopoderosa, The All-Powerful Hand
Virgin of the Rosary of Chichinquira

Link

[narses]

"The Church says there are."

Really? Where does the Church say, with any authority, that there are people BORN as homosexuals? Put up "deacon".

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Guess who was the art consultant for the cathedral?

Richard Stephen Vosko
Art consultant for the Cathedral
www.rvosko.com

http://www.kcet.org/lifeandtimes/arts_cathedral.php

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

You're right, he DID write a book!

http://artscenecal.com/ArticlesFile/Archive/Articles2003/Articles1203/RGrahamB.html

[sinkspur]

Read the Catholic Catechism, narses.

[Aliska]

Links to more pictures of sculpture, fence mural, fountains, bells, garden

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Monstrous modernism. Add the figure of the cost of this "cathedral" plus the hundreds of millions drained from the sodomy rape scandals...it would have been cheaper to buy every homosexual priest a condo in San Francisco, South Beach or Key West.

[american colleen]

And now Catholic Charities in this archdiocese will be dispensing birth control. Wonder if the Cardinal will put up much of a fight?

[narses]

I have "deacon", have you? Cite your sources or be silent.

[sinkspur]

I have "deacon", have you?

If you have to ask, you haven't.

And you're not silencing anybody, narses.

[Aliska]

I can see how it would appeal to indigenous peoples and Asians which make up a significant percentage of the population in LA. It reminds me of Mayan ruins though, and I think it's kind of creepy. I must say those doors (minus the symbols) are something else. It would be neat to see how they open.

[B Knotts]

I had no idea Fr. Vosko was involved. Wow. It all eventually connects, doesn't it?

[narses]

Failing at anything but noise, the self declared "deacon" squeaks. But your claim remains unsubstatiated. Could it be your mouth ran ahead of itself again? Here is what the CHURCH teaches "deacon":

Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 6, SubSection 2, Heading 5

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, 141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." 142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 6, SubSection 2, Heading 5

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 6, SubSection 4, Heading 3

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Try really hard "deacon" -- try and understand the reality. God did NOT create people who are "homosexuals". He created you and me, and many others. Some have a DISORDER that leads them to desire sinful behavior. They should NEVER be allowed near children. Priests, by their pastoral calling, are required to be around children. Use your head "deacon", not your mouth.

[narses]

Given a choice between the "Official" Church and Mass at Mel Gibson's Chapel, where a VALIDLY ordained priest using the correct form, matter and intent consecrated the Mass, where would YOU go?

[sinkspur]

Try really hard "deacon" -- try and understand the reality. God did NOT create people who are "homosexuals".

Well, now, the Catholic Catechism doesn't say that, does it? What it DOES say is this:

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible.

And this:

They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.

Try to be charitable, narses. It IS Lent after all.

[narses]

Instructing the ignorant IS charity "deacon" and trying to claim that there are "homosexuals" is dishonest.

[B Knotts]

I still do not know the actual status of the Masses at Mr. Gibson's chapel, so it would be unfair for me to state whether they are or are not illicit. Obviously, validity is most important, but I would additionally prefer a licit Mass.

I don't say this to judge anyone, and I understand there are those who would accept illicity to guarantee validity.

[sinkspur]

Instructing the ignorant IS charity "deacon" and trying to claim that there are "homosexuals" is dishonest.

Only the ignorant would say there are no homosexuals, narses.

Do you have heterosexual tendencies? That makes you a heterosexual.

Those who have homosexual tendencies are homosexuals.

[sinkspur]

Given a choice between the "Official" Church and Mass at Mel Gibson's Chapel, where a VALIDLY ordained priest using the correct form, matter and intent consecrated the Mass, where would YOU go?

You can't go to Gibson's chapel for Mass.

He only invites 70 people, and you're not one of them.