Posted on 01/03/2004 6:49:39 AM PST by drstevej
Source: Hans J. Hillerbrand, ed. The Reformation: A Narrative History Related by Contemporary Observers and Participants (Harper and Row, Inc. 1964, Reprint Baker Book House, 1978) pp. 47-49.
The Castle Church at Wittenberg, where Luther probably posted his ninety-five theses, was famous for its extensive collection of relics, as the following excerpt from what might be called the official catalogue's shows.
... Three pieces of the city where the Virgin Mary was born. One piece of a yarn which she spun. One piece of the house where she lived at the age of fourteen. Two pieces of the city of Mt Zion where Mary lived. Two pieces of the room where Mary was greeted by the angel. Five particles of the milk of the Virgin Mary. One piece of the tree where Mary nursed the Lord near the Garden of Balsam. Four pieces of the hair of Mary. Three pieces of the shirt of Mary. Three pieces of one robe of Mary. Eight pieces of other robes of Mary. Four pieces of the belt of Mary. Seven pieces of the veil of Mary. Two pieces of the veil of Mary which was sprinkled with the blood of Christ under the Cross. One piece of the city where Mary died. One piece of the wax candle given to Our Lady when she died. Six pieces of the grave of Mary. Two pieces of the earth of the grave of Mary. One piece of the place where Mary ascended into heaven. VI. A silver picture of the little baby Jesus. Four pieces of the city where the Lord Jesus was born. One piece of the diaper in which he was wrapped. Thirteen pieces of the manger of Jesus. One piece of the cradle. Two pieces of the hay. One piece of the straw on which the Lord lay when he was born. One piece of the gold and of the myrrh which the Three Kings offered unto the Lord. One piece of the city where the Lord Jesus was circumcised. VII. Four pieces of the mountain on which the Lord Jesus fasted. Two pieces of the city where Christ preached the Lord's Prayer. One piece of the stone on which Jesus stood while weeping over Jerusalem. One piece of the stone from which Christ got on the donkey. Two pieces of the ground where the Lord Christ was arrested. VIII.... Five pieces of the table on which the Lord Christ held the Last Supper with his disciples. One piece of the bread of which Christ ate with his disciples during the Last Supper. IX.... One piece of the land which was bought for the thirty pieces of silver for which Christ was betrayed. One piece of the Holy Land. Three pieces of the stone where the Lord sweated blood. One piece of the ground where the Lord sweated blood. One piece of the stone sprinkled with the blood of Christ. X. Three pieces of the Mount of Olives and of the rod of Aaron. Two pieces of the rod of Moses. One piece of the burning bush which Moses saw. One piece of an object sprinkled with the blood of Christ. Eleven pieces of Mount Calvary. Two pieces of the Mount of Olives. XI. One piece of the cloth with which the Lord wiped his disciples' feet. One piece of the robe of Christ: One piece of the seamless robe of Christ. One piece of the robe of Christ. One piece of his purple robe. Two pieces of the cloth which St Veronica received from the Lord. Three pieces of the white robe in which the Lord was ridiculed by Herod . Three pieces of the cloth with which our Lord's holy eyes were blindfolded. One piece of the beard of the Lord Jesus. XII. One piece of the wax of the candles which touched the sudarium of Christ. One piece of the wedge with which the cross of Christ was held. Three pieces of the stone on which the cross stood. Three pieces of the place where the cross of Christ was found. Twelve pieces of the column where the Lord Christ was scourged and flogged.
The Eight Aisle. I. One piece of the rope with which Jesus was tied. Three pieces of the rod with which the Lord Jesus was scourged. Three pieces of the whip with which the Lord Jesus was flogged. One piece of the stone upon which the Lord Jesus sat when he was crowned. One piece of the stone which was crushed while the Lord carried the cross. One piece of the sponge with which the Lord was given vinegar and gall.... III. Two pieces of the crown of the Lord Jesus. Eight complete thorns of the crown of the Lord Jesus. IV. One large piece of one nail which was driven through the hands or feet of the Lord Jesus. V. A thorn which wounded the holy head of the Lord Jesus. VI. One piece of the holy cross.... VII. Three pieces of the holy cross. VIII. Three pieces of the three kinds of wood of the cross of Christ. IX. A particularly large piece from the holy cross. X. Twenty-five pieces of the holy cross. XI. One piece of the stone which lay on the grave of Christ. Twenty-two pieces of the grave of Christ. One piece of the stone from which Christ descended into heaven. XII. A casket lined with silver in which are found sixteen hundred and seventy-eight pieces. Seventy-six pieces of holy remains. Bones from holy places which on account of faded writing can no longer be read and identified. All in all : five thousand and five pieces. An indulgence of one hundred days for each piece. There are eight halls and each hall has an indulgence of one hundred and one days in addition. Blessed are those who participate therein.
Lucas Cranach, Wittemberger Heiligthumsbuch.
Does YOUR KJV say something different from MY KJV?
I belong to the church of the Lamb of God. I have entered in at the gate. To which do you belong?
No, not unless you wrest the Scriptures.
NO... but your Book of Mormon sure does, and it is THAT book you rely on, NOT the Bible, as has been pointed out thoughout this and many other threads.
I must be wrong.
Point me to the gate........
That phrase occurs just once in the KJV:
Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?
Yes, Jesus said that.
Little Fluffy Clouds
What were the skies like when u were young?
They went on for ever and they when I we lived in Arizona and the skies always had little fluffy clouds and err..
they were long and clear and there were lots of stars, at night.
And errr when it rain it would all turn, it, they were beautiful, the most beautiful skies as a matter of fact,
the sunsets were purple and red and yellow and on fire and the clouds would catch the colours everywhere,
thats, its neat because I used to look at them all the time when i was little. You don't see that.
That is your spin. I quote from the Bible much more overall. When we are talking about what we Latter-Day Saints believe, and where plain and precious things have been restored, there do tend to be more quotes from latter-day revelation in that particular discussion.
In this post, as it happens, there is one quote from the Bible and two from the Book of Mormon, both of which are volumes of sacred Scripture, about the profitability of Scripture:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:The plates of brass just referred to are the Scriptures (from the creation account to about 600 BC) that Nephi's people brought with them to the Americas. The plates of brass (roughly Genesis to Jeremiah) is a larger record than the Bible we have today (Genesis to Malachi and Matthew to Revelation).
Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 19:23 And I did read many things unto them which were written in the books of Moses; but that I might more fully persuade them to believe in the Lord their Redeemer I did read unto them that which was written by the prophet Isaiah; for I did liken all scriptures unto us, that it might be for our profit and learning.
Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 4:15 And upon these I write the things of my soul, and many of the scriptures which are engraven upon the plates of brass. For my soul delighteth in the scriptures, and my heart pondereth them, and writeth them for the learning and the profit of my children.
If you click on the 2 Nephi 4:15 link and read to the end of the chapter, you will find what we call the "Psalm of Nephi", because it is written much like a Psalm of David.
The Joseph Smith Translation does not modify the King James Version. They are separate volumes. Our KJV does have footnotes comparing the two.
Only part of the JST has been canonized: the JST of the first few chapters of Genesis, called the Book of Moses, and the JST of a chapter of Matthew. Both are in the Pearl of Great Price.
As you may recall from an earlier post of mine:
Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 31:17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.Compare with this from Peter's sermon on the Day of Pentecost, and other verses, some using the figure of a door (Christ) rather than a gate (faith, repentance, and baptism, by one having authority, and in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost):
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(That is 14 Bible verses and 2 from the Book of Mormon, for those who are counting.)
Matt. 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 9:41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
John 10:1-11
1 VERILY, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
This one does it for me..........
How does THIS work?
Good! That is because the sheep are well acquainted with the Word of God and the witness of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said:
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
D&C 19:23 Learn of me, and listen to my words; walk in the meekness of my Spirit, and you shall have peace in me.
Luke 3:16-17
16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
The Scriptures bear witness: spiritual rebirth is a great thing that defies attempts to describe it.
The witness of the Holy Spirit likewise.
The Gift of the Holy Spirit likewise.
The converting power of the Holy Spirit likewise.
Those who ask of God with humble hearts and contrite spirits for wisdom and guidance, living the light they have, are blessed in many ways, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The power of godliness is manifest in the ordinances of the Gospel, administered by those to whom Jesus has given authority.
These things should not be dismissed without thinking or taken lightly.
The KJV and JST (and NASB and RSV) are not the same. They do not modify each other, nor do they modify the Hebrew/Greek manuscripts. They are separate books on the shelf.
The poster assuredly knows that he does not have a no-lossage Bible, for example:
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Yet the poster still cherrypicks verses such as Romans 8:30 and places a no-lossage private interpretation upon them. One day the poster will learn the importance of believing the whole Bible.
In the meantime, the poster could take JST Romans 8:30, though noncanonized, as a heads-up for the possibility that the original autograph of Romans 8:30 may read differently than extant manuscripts do, just as the height of Goliath "grew" over the centuries:
(From a couple of recent posts on another thread:)
The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible documents many variations between Qumran manuscripts, the Septuagint, the Masoretic text, and others. For example, Goliath's height in 1 Samuel 17:4 varies from four cubits and a span (about six feet) in a Qumran manuscript to six cubits and a span (about nine feet) in the Masoretic text 1000 years later. The story grew in the recopying!
The next passage [1 Samuel 17:3-6] illustrates how ancient narratives sometimes grew at the hand of narrators or scribes. 4QSam(a) gives the height of Goliath as "four cubits" (equaling about six feet), and this is what the original Septuagint, followed by the historian Josephus, also records. Later Septuagint manuscripts read "five cubits", and the Masoretic Text, followed by yet later Septuagint manuscripts, reads "six cubits" (equaling about nine feet).
Abegg, Flint, and Ulrich, The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time into English. HarperCollins, 1999, p. 228
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