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Perspective: Die-hard Confederates should be reconstructed
St. Augustine Record ^ | 09/27/2003 | Peter Guinta

Posted on 09/30/2003 12:19:22 PM PDT by sheltonmac

The South's unconditional surrender in 1865 apparently was unacceptable to today's Neo-Confederates.

They'd like to rewrite history, demonizing Abraham Lincoln and the federal government that forced them to remain in the awful United States against their will.

On top of that, now they are opposing the U.S. Navy's plan to bury the crew of the CSS H.L. Hunley under the American flag next year.

The Hunley was the first submarine to sink an enemy vessel. In 1863, it rammed and fatally damaged the Union warship USS Housatonic with a fixed torpedo, but then the manually driven sub sank on its way home, killing its eight-man crew.

It might have been a lucky shot from the Housatonic, leaks caused by the torpedo explosion, an accidental strike by another Union ship, malfunction of its snorkel valves, damage to its steering planes or getting stuck in the mud.

In any case, the Navy found and raised its remains and plans a full-dress military funeral and burial service on April 17, 2004, in Charleston, S.C. The four-mile funeral procession is expected to draw 10,000 to 20,000 people, many in period costume or Confederate battle dress.

But the Sons of Confederate Veterans, generally a moderate group that works diligently to preserve Southern history and heritage, has a radical wing that is salivating with anger.

One Texas Confederate has drawn 1,600 signatures on a petition saying "the flag of their eternal enemy, the United States of America," must not fly over the Hunley crew's funeral.

To their credit, the funeral's organizers will leave the U.S. flag flying.

After all, the search and preservation of the Hunley artifacts, as well as the funeral itself, were paid for by U.S. taxpayers.

Also, the Hunley crew was born under the Stars and Stripes. The Confederacy was never an internationally recognized nation, so the crewmen also died as citizens of the United States.

They were in rebellion, but they were still Americans.

This whole issue is an insult to all Southerners who fought under the U.S. flag before and since the Civil War.

But it isn't the only outrage by rabid secessionists.

They are also opposing the placement of a statue of Abraham Lincoln in Richmond, Va., the Confederate capital.

According to an article by Bob Moser and published in the Southern Poverty Law Center's magazine "Intelligence Report," which monitors right-wing and hate groups, the U.S. Historical Society announced it was donating a statue of Lincoln to Richmond.

Lincoln visited that city in April 1865 to begin healing the wounds caused by the war.

The proposed life-sized statue has Lincoln resting on a bench, looking sad, his arm around his 12-year-old son, Tad. The base of the statue has a quote from his second inaugural address.

However, the League of the South and the Sons of Confederate Veterans raised a stink, calling Lincoln a tyrant and war criminal. Neo-Confederates are trying to make Lincoln "a figure few history students would recognize: a racist dictator who trashed the Constitution and turned the USA into an imperialist welfare state," Moser's article says.

White supremacist groups have jumped onto the bandwagon. Their motto is "Taking America back starts with taking Lincoln down."

Actually, if it weren't for the forgiving nature of Lincoln, Richmond would be a smoking hole in the ground and hundreds of Confederate leaders -- including Jefferson Davis -- would be hanging from trees from Fredericksburg, Va., to Atlanta.

Robert E. Lee said, "I surrendered as much to Lincoln's goodness as I did to Grant's armies."

Revisionist history to suit a political agenda is as intellectually abhorrent as whitewashing slavery itself. It's racism under a different flag. While it's not a criminal offense, it is a crime against truth and history.

I'm not talking about re-enactors here. These folks just want to live history. But the Neo-Confederate movement is a disguised attempt to change history.

In the end, the Confederacy was out-fought, out-lasted, eventually out-generaled and totally over-matched. It was a criminal idea to start with, and its success would have changed the course of modern history for the worse.

Coming to that realization cost this nation half a million lives.

So I hope that all Neo-Confederates -- 140 years after the fact -- can finally get out of their racist, twisted, angry time machine and join us here in 2003.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: crackers; csshlhunley; dixie; dixielist; fergithell; guintamafiarag; hillbillies; hlhunley; losers; neanderthals; oltimesrnotfogotten; oltimesrnotforgotten; pinheads; putthescareinthem; rednecks; scv; submarine; traitors; yankeeangst
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To: Non-Sequitur
if you know about & have access to such pictures of the klan DIS-honoring the sacred CROSS & US FLAG, why don't you post them?

you're really good at posting drivel, lies & distortions of everything about the CSA flags; perhaps you'd be thought better of on the forum, if there was some balance to your posts.

BUT i guess that's why we southrons on FR call you the Yankee Minister of Propaganda.

free dixie,sw

481 posted on 10/02/2003 9:32:19 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistence to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson)
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To: sheltonmac
Have you actually read the decision, or do I need to post it for you? The US Supreme Court is the ultimate authority when it comes to the interpretation of the Constitution. The reasoning in Texas v White still stands. There were plenty of legal ways for the Southerners to propose, and maybe even effect, secession. They chose none of them. In 1860-61, they even had a sympathetic US Supreme Court that had just given them Dred Scott. But cooler heads did not prevail.

I think you would like Look Away by historian William C. Davis. It is available in paperback.

482 posted on 10/02/2003 9:34:51 AM PDT by capitan_refugio
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To: Non-Sequitur
if you know about & have access to such pictures of the klan DIS-honoring the sacred CROSS & US FLAG, why don't you post them?

you're really good at posting drivel, lies & distortions of everything about the CSA flags; perhaps you'd be thought better of on the forum, if there was some balance to your posts.

BUT i guess that's why we southrons on FR call you the Yankee Minister of Propaganda.

free dixie,sw

483 posted on 10/02/2003 10:19:59 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistence to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Non-Sequitur
if you know about & have access to such pictures of the klan DIS-honoring the sacred CROSS & US FLAG, why don't you post them?

you're really good at posting drivel, lies & distortions of everything about the CSA flags; perhaps you'd be thought better of on the forum, if there was some balance to your posts.

BUT i guess that's why we southrons on FR call you the Yankee Minister of Propaganda.

free dixie,sw

484 posted on 10/02/2003 10:20:36 AM PDT by stand watie (Resistence to tyrants is obedience to God. -Thomas Jefferson)
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To: capitan_refugio
The US Supreme Court is the ultimate authority when it comes to the interpretation of the Constitution.

And that was decided by whom? That's right: the Supreme Court itself. So I guess the founders were wrong when they made the Constitution the supreme law of the land. Ben Franklin was just whistling Dixie (if you'll pardon the expression) when he said, "It is every American's right, and obligation, to read and interpret the Constitution for himself."

What it boils down to is not what is actually written in the document but what nine people in black robes says it means. Forgive me if I don't jump on board the judicial oligarchy bandwagon.

485 posted on 10/02/2003 10:52:41 AM PDT by sheltonmac (If having the U.S. enforce U.N. resolutions is not world government, what is?)
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To: Non-Sequitur; Maelstorm
when I refuted the preposterous claim that President Lincoln wanted to send all blacks back to Africa.
"I cannot make it better known than it already is that I strongly favor colonization"
-Lincoln (1862, Annual Address to Congress)
*Maelstorm, I found the supporting quote for you.
486 posted on 10/02/2003 10:53:02 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Non-Sequitur
why do you condemn Lincoln for his view and not condemn Davis for his?

I do not recall supporting Davis for his views on "colonization/deporatation" - in fact, I'm not sure we have ever discussed it.

487 posted on 10/02/2003 10:56:44 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: PhilipFreneau
Spoken verbatim like a classic Democrat. Word for word KKK drivel. Didn't you know that?
488 posted on 10/02/2003 11:02:39 AM PDT by Held_to_Ransom
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To: stand watie
Ben Butler shut down the KKK, and for that you hate his guts? Let me think what that means.....
489 posted on 10/02/2003 11:03:44 AM PDT by Held_to_Ransom
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To: Non-Sequitur
A person is judges by their actions, not their words. And Lincoln's actions were those of a tyrant.

NOT ONCE DID HE EVEN TRY TO PREVENT OR SETTLE THE CIVIL WAR IN A PEACEFUL MANNER!!!!

HE WAS TO BUSY TRYING TO TAX THE SOUTH TO DEATH!!!!

Which by the way, if you actually read the words of his speeches, they will remind you of Clinton's speeches.

490 posted on 10/02/2003 11:07:14 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: HenryLeeII
LOL!!
491 posted on 10/02/2003 11:07:30 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: WhiskeyPapa
WhiskeyPapa, I think you actually breaking new records in the cut and pasting department.
492 posted on 10/02/2003 11:08:31 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Question_Assumptions
>> You forgot to highlight this clause:

"... nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."
493 posted on 10/02/2003 11:10:22 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: Paul C. Jesup
Post 486 refutes WP's posted letter
494 posted on 10/02/2003 11:12:10 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Held_to_Ransom
>> Spoken verbatim like a classic Democrat. Word for word KKK drivel.

If you have disputing evidence, then present it, jackass.
495 posted on 10/02/2003 11:12:57 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: stainlessbanner
Thanks. But I don't think WP actually reads his posts, but cuts and paste then skims those posts.
496 posted on 10/02/2003 11:15:09 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: PhilipFreneau
HTR is getting close to Godwin's Law

He has no proof, but tossing red herrings in the debate serves his purpose.

497 posted on 10/02/2003 11:18:15 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Question_Assumptions
A state isn't bound to abide by the compact if they have left the compact.

It is especially and morally problematic to insist they abide by that compact when they have reached the conclusion that the compact has already been violated when deciding that they must leave the compact.

The decision is to leave the compact. All strictures upon them for abiding by the compact are null and void once they've left.

The seceding states did not first violate the Constitution by refusing to uphold all treaties...no...they first seceded. Such a secession was a formality as the Constitution to which they had been sworn had already been sundered by the actions of the Federal Government.
498 posted on 10/02/2003 11:18:33 AM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: stainlessbanner
Thank you, unfortunately, those abhorrent toward the concept of freedom have already exposed the argument that he was not as a strawman by changing that aspect of the debate from a preference to shipping out all the blacks to one of *forcing* out all the blacks.

Something they've added out of whole cloth in order to change a failed argument.
499 posted on 10/02/2003 11:21:35 AM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: PhilipFreneau
The supremacy clause makes the Constitution and federal law the supreme law of the land. Barring an explicit provision in the constitution, no state can exempt itself from the Constitution and laws of the United States. This doesn't mean some dissolution of the union is impossible, just that it can't be unilateral. The representatives of the whole country have to be involved.

This debate has been going on a long time, and other people are more expert and interested in these questions than I am. One thing I have noticed is how much Confederate types ignore the explosive situation of the times. It was a very chaotic time. The air was charged with thoughts of war and revolution, and we're told now that things were much more calm and peaceful than they were. The secessionists were hardly peace-loving petitioners for the redress of grievances. They flirted with war and, in Davis's case, embraced it.

The recklessness of Southern leaders might have been excused if there was a real threat of tyranny at the time. Had they acted more prudentially they might have achieved their goals without war, though the realization of their aims would hardly have been something praiseworthy either.

The fact that things have gone wrong since 1865 has been used to justify the rebellion, but it's not enough to whitewash the secessionists. Neither their aims nor their means were particularly laudable.

500 posted on 10/02/2003 11:35:58 AM PDT by x
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