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Perspective: Die-hard Confederates should be reconstructed
St. Augustine Record ^ | 09/27/2003 | Peter Guinta

Posted on 09/30/2003 12:19:22 PM PDT by sheltonmac

The South's unconditional surrender in 1865 apparently was unacceptable to today's Neo-Confederates.

They'd like to rewrite history, demonizing Abraham Lincoln and the federal government that forced them to remain in the awful United States against their will.

On top of that, now they are opposing the U.S. Navy's plan to bury the crew of the CSS H.L. Hunley under the American flag next year.

The Hunley was the first submarine to sink an enemy vessel. In 1863, it rammed and fatally damaged the Union warship USS Housatonic with a fixed torpedo, but then the manually driven sub sank on its way home, killing its eight-man crew.

It might have been a lucky shot from the Housatonic, leaks caused by the torpedo explosion, an accidental strike by another Union ship, malfunction of its snorkel valves, damage to its steering planes or getting stuck in the mud.

In any case, the Navy found and raised its remains and plans a full-dress military funeral and burial service on April 17, 2004, in Charleston, S.C. The four-mile funeral procession is expected to draw 10,000 to 20,000 people, many in period costume or Confederate battle dress.

But the Sons of Confederate Veterans, generally a moderate group that works diligently to preserve Southern history and heritage, has a radical wing that is salivating with anger.

One Texas Confederate has drawn 1,600 signatures on a petition saying "the flag of their eternal enemy, the United States of America," must not fly over the Hunley crew's funeral.

To their credit, the funeral's organizers will leave the U.S. flag flying.

After all, the search and preservation of the Hunley artifacts, as well as the funeral itself, were paid for by U.S. taxpayers.

Also, the Hunley crew was born under the Stars and Stripes. The Confederacy was never an internationally recognized nation, so the crewmen also died as citizens of the United States.

They were in rebellion, but they were still Americans.

This whole issue is an insult to all Southerners who fought under the U.S. flag before and since the Civil War.

But it isn't the only outrage by rabid secessionists.

They are also opposing the placement of a statue of Abraham Lincoln in Richmond, Va., the Confederate capital.

According to an article by Bob Moser and published in the Southern Poverty Law Center's magazine "Intelligence Report," which monitors right-wing and hate groups, the U.S. Historical Society announced it was donating a statue of Lincoln to Richmond.

Lincoln visited that city in April 1865 to begin healing the wounds caused by the war.

The proposed life-sized statue has Lincoln resting on a bench, looking sad, his arm around his 12-year-old son, Tad. The base of the statue has a quote from his second inaugural address.

However, the League of the South and the Sons of Confederate Veterans raised a stink, calling Lincoln a tyrant and war criminal. Neo-Confederates are trying to make Lincoln "a figure few history students would recognize: a racist dictator who trashed the Constitution and turned the USA into an imperialist welfare state," Moser's article says.

White supremacist groups have jumped onto the bandwagon. Their motto is "Taking America back starts with taking Lincoln down."

Actually, if it weren't for the forgiving nature of Lincoln, Richmond would be a smoking hole in the ground and hundreds of Confederate leaders -- including Jefferson Davis -- would be hanging from trees from Fredericksburg, Va., to Atlanta.

Robert E. Lee said, "I surrendered as much to Lincoln's goodness as I did to Grant's armies."

Revisionist history to suit a political agenda is as intellectually abhorrent as whitewashing slavery itself. It's racism under a different flag. While it's not a criminal offense, it is a crime against truth and history.

I'm not talking about re-enactors here. These folks just want to live history. But the Neo-Confederate movement is a disguised attempt to change history.

In the end, the Confederacy was out-fought, out-lasted, eventually out-generaled and totally over-matched. It was a criminal idea to start with, and its success would have changed the course of modern history for the worse.

Coming to that realization cost this nation half a million lives.

So I hope that all Neo-Confederates -- 140 years after the fact -- can finally get out of their racist, twisted, angry time machine and join us here in 2003.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: crackers; csshlhunley; dixie; dixielist; fergithell; guintamafiarag; hillbillies; hlhunley; losers; neanderthals; oltimesrnotfogotten; oltimesrnotforgotten; pinheads; putthescareinthem; rednecks; scv; submarine; traitors; yankeeangst
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To: republicanwizard
>> To oppose the Civil War is to support slavery.

Nonsense. I vehemently oppose slavery, though not as much as I oppose usurpation of power.
321 posted on 10/01/2003 11:05:12 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: Non-Sequitur
The Constitution is a compact entered into freely and voluntarily by the States...

For the most part the states didn't enter anything freely or voluntarily. They asked to be admitted. They gained statehood only with the approval of the majority of the other states.

Not Texas, which petitioned for admission but which action was never acted upon by the US congress. Then, with the creation of the Confederacy, and against the best counsel of some of the Texian founders and statesmen, Texas instead *jined up* with the Confederacy, and was thereafter occupied by Unionist forces as conquered enemy territory.

Texas was afterward *readmitted* to the Union, though in fact had never previously been admitted as constitutionally prescribed. So if I'm to keep the pledge I swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, Texas isn't really a state.

-archy-/-

322 posted on 10/01/2003 11:05:44 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: republicanwizard
It was impossible for the seceded states to cease to become American. Lincoln viewed secession as impossible. Therefore, though they might claim a new allegiance, the Confederates were still legally citizens of the United States.

No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent.

--Abraham Lincoln

All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.

--Marbury vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803)

323 posted on 10/01/2003 11:09:37 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: wardaddy
>> Let's all not forget that North American slavery is the absolute worst thing that ever happened in the history of the universe and we must continue to bow at the guilt altar indefinitely.

That is nonsense. Slavery in the U.S. was a terrible thing, for certain. But history has generated far more brutal situations.
324 posted on 10/01/2003 11:09:58 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
I must confess that mostly by chance I have never in my 30 years of driving owned American cars sans my Ford F-pickups and my old dependable Grand Cherokee now at 232,000.

My folks would not allow muscle cars so I made do with MGAs, MGB-GTs, and BMW 1600s...you know cool long haired dope smoker cars of the era..lol
325 posted on 10/01/2003 11:11:02 AM PDT by wardaddy (The Lizard King it was.....)
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To: PhilipFreneau
It was sarcasm Phil.
326 posted on 10/01/2003 11:11:36 AM PDT by wardaddy (The Lizard King it was.....)
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To: Central_Floridian
You can find plenty of Yankee commanders saying nasty things about negroes including ol Honest Abe himself.
327 posted on 10/01/2003 11:13:27 AM PDT by wardaddy (The Lizard King it was.....)
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To: archy
Me neither. Have a lemon to suck on. Tasty!

In what little I have read about Jackson confirms that the lemon affection is mostly mythical. Jackson ate fruit, but he wasn't the lemon addict he is portrayed to be.

328 posted on 10/01/2003 11:13:47 AM PDT by carton253 (All I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11/2001)
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To: archy
Then I ask again "If what Stockdale said was true, then why did Lee sign and heartily endorse the Stuart letter just a few weeks later ?"

The Robert E. Lee I learned about was an honorable man with a firm conviction. I seriously doubt he would have said one thing one week and done something different the next.

Remember also that the Stockdale story is not from Stockdale directly. The story was first told in the book "Life & Letters of Robert Lewis Dabney". Even when it was written it was from second hand source (Dabney), not Stockdale himself. Stockdale never related this incident to anyone else and the only person we factually know who ever mentioned it was Robert Dabney.
329 posted on 10/01/2003 11:18:11 AM PDT by XRdsRev
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To: ZULU
For anyone, North or South, to assert Southerners are not really "Americans" is the height of stupidity, or the fruit of treason.

Anyone making such a statement would clearly be making a statement that would give propagandistic aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States, now waging war on it and its citizens.

Of course, I would not force the flight of the United States flag on those who might not have wanted flown over their [hopefully] final resting place. But in most cases, we can only guess at what they themselves might have so wished.

-archy-/-

330 posted on 10/01/2003 11:18:35 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
"You are aware Lincoln wanted to ship all the blacks back to Africa.

No he didn't."

I believe he said something to the effect that if he could
keep the union without freeing a single slave, he would.

331 posted on 10/01/2003 11:21:03 AM PDT by bk1000 (one of these days I simply MUST come up with a decent tag line.)
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To: Question_Assumptions
I think that's a good idea but I would suggest that it would be even better to use the CSA flag and not the battle flag (the battle is over and the battle flag, alas, has become associated with racism) or, even better, the state flags of those men who died.

Swell idea. I hope it's adopted right after the honor guard at Arlington Cemetery appears in civilian clothing, jeans, T-shirts and sneakers, since the battles are over for those who died there, and we wouldn't want to offend the sensibilities of any politicians who loath the military. Or his wife.

-archy-/-

332 posted on 10/01/2003 11:21:12 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Godebert
>> They (confederates) were all draftees from day one."

I have never heard that before.

>>26th South Carolina Volunteers my g-g-grandfather's regimental flag.

My g-grandfather served in the 1st South Carolina State Troops, enlisting at age 16 during the last year of the war. His older brother James served in the 24th South Carolina Infantry Regiment, and older brother John served in the 19th South Carolina Volunteers. His brother-in-law, also John, was a Lieutenant in the Confederate Army. Two of his uncles were killed in the war.

333 posted on 10/01/2003 11:21:31 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: carton253
Federal troops (actually state volunteers) only moved into Virginia after that state secceeded and joined the Confederacy on May 7, 1861. The first formal body of Union troops crossed the Potomac and occupied Alexandria on May 24, 1861.
334 posted on 10/01/2003 11:23:54 AM PDT by XRdsRev
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To: wardaddy
>> It was sarcasm Phil.

LOL. Sorry. You caught me in a Wilsonian "spirit of the moment".
335 posted on 10/01/2003 11:24:03 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: familyofman
"Present-day Southerners have never owned, let alone whipped, slaves."

No, but a lot of the revisionists would probably like to - honoring their forefathers & all.

I have owned a slave, a member of the Ibo tribe and Christian named Benny, when I was in Nigeria. Had I not done so, he would have been left to starvation.

I frequently whipped him as well. Mostly at checkers, a game which was new to him. He usually won when we played chess.

He made it out of Nigeria and was a free man once he arrived in Rhodesia in '77. I have no idea how he's fared since, but he saw the present difficulties coming and I doubt he stuck around to experience them firsthand. And I doubt he returned to Nigeria, either.

-archy-/-

336 posted on 10/01/2003 11:26:52 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: wardaddy
A buddy of mine had been drooling over the notion of getting an MGB-GT, and it took him till his 18th birthday to save up for it. It was a gorgeous thing, ran like a scalded rabbit and handled like a dream, but the dumb bastard rolled it two weeks after he bought it (the Good Lord looks after drunks and fools though - he didn't get a scratch).
337 posted on 10/01/2003 11:27:41 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (....try weasel, the other yellow meat....)
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To: XRdsRev
But wouldn't you count that as an invasion (no matter what your political leanings were) I mean, you are a farmer, the land you farm has been in your family for generations. You aren't for secession, but Virginia seceedes anyway. Suddenly you find an alien army in your backyard sent to fight and destroy your neighbors. I certainly would believe that I was invaded, and I would fight. Political differences and fights aside... Lincoln invaded the South.
338 posted on 10/01/2003 11:28:30 AM PDT by carton253 (All I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11/2001)
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To: stand watie
AND he wanted to drive EVERY Indian OUT of the USA and/or KILL us all.

the tyrant, lincoln the first of DC,was nothing, if not consistent in his racism & HATEFULNESS!

What else would you expect from a lawyer whose talents served the Nineteenth Century's railroad barons?

-archy-/-

339 posted on 10/01/2003 11:30:17 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
WRONG...that is a TEXAS URBAN LEGEND

Texas was admitted to the Union on December 29, 1845

Geez where do you guys get this stuff ??

Read about it here......

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp
340 posted on 10/01/2003 11:32:12 AM PDT by XRdsRev
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