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Legal Tragedy for Unemployed Divorced Men & Fathers

Posted on 08/17/2003 2:34:43 PM PDT by ImFightingMad

I am writing this to make this Legal Tragedy better known and also in hope that someone could help the thousands of us in this tragic situation.

Like many Americans at this time, I have been laid off. This in itself is bad enough for most Americans, but those of us that have been divorced face a Legal Tragedy that is against The Constitution and all moral concepts. Men are almost exclusively affected by what I am about to tell you. This shows the discrimination of the courts and the laws in this country.

Since I have been laid off, I am only “earning” unemployment insurance, which is only 16.6% of my previous gross income. I therefore cannot pay the alimony and child support that the courts ordered in my divorce in Florida. I do not even have enough money for my own expenses. The courts in Florida are looking at finding me in contempt of court because of non-payment. They would therefore put me in jail along with countless others for the same reason. This makes no legal or moral sense in many ways:

1. If I was still married and got laid off, would the courts care, of course not! The family would have to do what they could to survive. But, since I have been divorced, and there is no relationship anymore, I’m supposed to support them over supporting myself, otherwise go to jail. How does this make any logical, moral or legal sense? Why is it that since I am divorced I have a greater financial responsibility than I ever did when I was married? Why should all of my rights be taken away because I am unemployed now, and yet my ex-wife is suppose to maintain the same or better lifestyle as when I was employed? This again, would not be the case if I were still married. This shows that divorce laws take precedence over basic human rights and are stronger laws than marriage itself, which is a bond with God.

2. If I’m in jail, how am I supposed to find a job? After being in jail, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to ever find a good job again!

3. This type of incarceration was abolished with the 13th Amendment. Which prohibits Involuntary Servitude. Also 8 USCA-56 prohibits Peonage.

Why should my life and other’s be completely destroyed just because we were ever married and now unemployed?

Isn’t the fact that I, and many others have lost our jobs enough of a tragedy in itself? How does completely destroying the rest of our lives solve anything? In this situation, what could any of us ever do to help ourselves?

I was extremely involved in the 2000 Presidential election, supporting George Bush. I lived and worked in Austin, Texas, but I was still a registered voter in Florida. The government and country that I so dearly loved and put so much energy into, has now let me down.

Please Help!


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Florida; US: Texas; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: childabuse; constitution; deadbeats; divorced; fatherhood; ignoringchildren; mdm; unemployed
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To: Lazamataz
I guess you don't really understand the consequence of me stepping foot in court! They would through me in jail for contempt because I am unemployed. I WILL NOT GO TO JAIL for that! I know that he would put out a bench warrant, but that gives me time for other actions!

I have thought that through comletely!
41 posted on 08/17/2003 3:33:08 PM PDT by ImFightingMad
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To: FITZ
I know a guy who was disabled and forced to continue payments to his X and childsupport

She married a doctor who she was having an affair with prior to their divorce

She took everything and the would be doc moved into my friend's house with my friends wife and kids - she sold off most of his possesion the rest were appropriated by the doc...(My friend could not afford an attorney but her parents had money and made sure that she got the very best)..

The doctor even lived off the child support and alimony while he was going to med school prior to the divorce and her remarriage...in a sense my friend help to pay for this guys med school education ....

Now he pays child support to her (the doc whose salary is probably half a million per annum never adopted the kids) so my friend is impoverished..and
while he barely has enough take care of his new wife and her children..

His new wife isnt getting any child support from her EX

Sorry for your bad marriage and financial troubles...I hope and pray it works out for you and your relationship with your children is someday restored
42 posted on 08/17/2003 3:37:13 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: PigRigger
Which is why you shouldn't marry.

There are plenty of 'sex b4 marriage' women to enjoy - risk free!

43 posted on 08/17/2003 3:37:21 PM PDT by StatesEnemy
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To: ImFightingMad
I'm laid off, divorced, and have two children living with me and have never received a frickin' dime of child support. Last I checked I'm owed near 30K. So quit whinging.


44 posted on 08/17/2003 3:38:19 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: mlmr
I have never heard of anyone doing this. This may have happened before, but you don't know more than one man who has done this.
45 posted on 08/17/2003 3:38:59 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace ((the original))
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To: ImFightingMad
I guess you don't really understand the consequence of me stepping foot in court! They would through me in jail for contempt because I am unemployed. I WILL NOT GO TO JAIL for that! I know that he would put out a bench warrant, but that gives me time for other actions! I have thought that through comletely!

Great, so now you will be a fullfledged Fujitive from Justice.

Dude.

You need a GOOD ATTORNEY PRONTO. If you cannot afford one, maybe someone who is a Florida attorney on Free Republic will work Pro Bono, or maybe will be willing to work out a schedule of payment. Start pinging the entire list of Florida freepers and ask if any are an attorney who can help.

DO NOT become a Fugitive from Justice. You WILL NOT be able to bail out of jail to start to set your life straight.

46 posted on 08/17/2003 3:40:13 PM PDT by Lazamataz (PROUDLY POSTING WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE SINCE 1999!)
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To: ImFightingMad
I have a suggestion for you. Costa Rica.

There are hundreds of men down there who are in the same predicament as you. I wont judge your actions like some, since I am not in your shoes. You will have to deal with the after-effects of whatever you decide.

But, short of killing yourself, leaving the country is the only way you are going to avoid going to jail.

47 posted on 08/17/2003 3:40:29 PM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: joesnuffy
Sorry for your bad marriage and financial troubles...I hope and pray it works out for you and your relationship with your children is someday restored

You must have meant this to be directed to someone else --- I'm not in a bad marriage --- or a bad divorce and I haven't got financial troubles.

48 posted on 08/17/2003 3:40:34 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: StatesEnemy
There are plenty of 'sex b4 marriage' women to enjoy - risk free!

,,, loser.

49 posted on 08/17/2003 3:41:15 PM PDT by shaggy eel (Having fun @ 41º 18'S 174º 47'E)
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To: ImFightingMad
Please Help!

Did you consider moving to another country? I am serious, some day you might return when this foolishness ends or you can negotiate from abroad or your children can visit you there when they grow up.

50 posted on 08/17/2003 3:43:13 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: moondancer
Your ex sounds like a liar and isn't even trying to make any kind of arrangement. Sometimes though I think it's better to just let go of the money and move on. If the ex is at least semi-trying I wouldn't cut off visitation --- some things are more important than money.
51 posted on 08/17/2003 3:43:17 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ
Uh, hate to disillusion you, but no, they don't all end up on welfare, and yes, this is a problem.

It is not the state's responsibility to raise my child. It is not the government's responsibility to support my child. It is not my neighbor's responsibility, either. Guess what? It is not my SOLE responsibility, either. It is jointly held with her father. If he does not contribute to her support, do I then only give her half as much to eat? Buy her half a pair of pants? How about just the left shoe?

Actually what I do, along with the vast majority of other single mothers who get little to no child support, is I go out and WORK, at whatever job I can get, and then I consider myself fortunate to have ANYTHING. If we do it, why shouldn't the fathers?

By the way, welfare is fine if you don't mind living in a slum with a crack house next door, spending 20 hours a week standing in lines waiting to be rejected for benefits and programs, living without phone service, and getting just one bag of groceries at a time because that's all you can carry home since welfare doesn't make car payments.

What we single mothers also do to feed our children is we sell our blood and possessions.

So yes, this is a problem.

Thank God I no longer have to do this. Thank God the Lord has held my tongue when I was tempted to tell my daughter that the reason she has to wear shoes that are too small is because her father thinks he is too good to work at just any old job. Thank God that I live in the United States where I can improve my situation through hard work and assumption of responsibility.

Quite frankly, I can think of much bigger legal travesties than injustices against able bodied men unwilling to put forth the effort and ego shrinkage required to behave responsibly.
52 posted on 08/17/2003 3:43:34 PM PDT by zoesmom (you have GOT to be kidding me)
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To: Savage Beast
Savage, you gave the best advice on this one. You could fake your death...some good novels on this one...like a capsized boat...etc. I would definitely be outta here, since the kids have been turned against you. It amazes me how men get stuck with sometimes the impossible; kids are a passport for many women (they know it when they do it}. Recently I had a client who ended up giving a wife of 7 years 1million bucks plus support because she brought home a baby from west va. and he was talked into adopting her. A disadvantaged child at that..that he will support forever. This wife had a history of marrying having kids gettin $$ and trucking or making the husband so miserable that he would. If you are gutsy go to nomarriage.com funny He says if you fly it, float it, or f if it is cheaper to rent it in the longrun.
53 posted on 08/17/2003 3:44:18 PM PDT by DooDahhhh
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
What do YOU mean by quit whining!

My ex is living fine with a good income including the income from my 17 year old! I am involunarily unemployed and expected to pay $2000/month in alimony and child support when I don't even earn that much now!

And the courts want to through me in jail for being unemployed. Be GLAD you are NOT in the same situation!
54 posted on 08/17/2003 3:44:44 PM PDT by ImFightingMad
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To: ImFightingMad
Life's a bitch . . .

Then you marry one.
55 posted on 08/17/2003 3:45:17 PM PDT by Petruchio (<===Looks Sexy in a flightsuit . . . Looks Silly in a french maid outfit)
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To: shaggy eel
HA!

No the losers are the ones that get saddled with child support when 'sweet potato' gets bored....

56 posted on 08/17/2003 3:45:19 PM PDT by StatesEnemy
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To: ImFightingMad
In all seriousness, this country has failed in providing a proper legal alternative for this situation. In short, you are living in a tyranical environment being promoted by the legal system (note: not Justice system, legal system.)

I would seriously suggest you emmigrate. Preferably to a country where when you get tired of your wife, you can get some nice livestock in exchange. I'm only half-joking here...

57 posted on 08/17/2003 3:47:00 PM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: zoesmom
If we do it, why shouldn't the fathers?

Well --- obviously they should. But what's the point in kicking them when they're down, getting them put in prison doesn't do you or the kids any good anyhow. Sometimes you just have to wonder what you saw before the marriage that made you end up with them --- but it's like all bad choices --- you just have to deal the best you can.

58 posted on 08/17/2003 3:47:08 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: All
Fred's Take:
Mostly when I hear one of these radical feminist ladies squawking and clucking about whatever is disturbing her system at the moment, I don't listen a whole lot, because most of them have the insight of flatworms and run on pure bile. But I have to agree with them about marriage. It's probably a bad idea.

For a guy, I mean. (If you're a woman, listen to the feminists. They'll tell you why marriage is a bad idea for women: Men are rapists. All of us. We batter women like cannibal tempura chefs. We don't have feelings. We're no damn good. Stay away from us.)

But let me tell you why marriage is bad for guys. If you're a young fellow thinking about tying the awful knot, read this carefully.

Guys marry for bad reasons. When it comes to women, we have less judgment than bugs in a moonshine bottle. Guys marry charm. They marry a sweet smile, a perky toss of the chin. They marry clear skin and bright eyes, soft lips, warm hands. They marry curves in a pretty print dress and silken hair that smells like warm milk and new-mown grass. (Maybe that's straining the language. Steinbeck or somebody said it.) Men marry necking on back roads with crickets creaking in the woods and warm breezes and Sally is just so unspeakably wonderful they can't do without her.

Men marry illusion. Sally marries a pre-med.

We males have an infinite capacity for deluding ourselves. The charm of women doesn't last, any more than flowers in a mountain meadow. A requirement for a marriage license should be that the guy spend fifteen minutes thinking of Sally as twenty pounds heavier with crow's feet and PMS and no further incentive to control it. In five years she won't want to party. Little Richard will give way to easy listening. In a decade she won't even slightly resemble the lissome damsel he married. She won't like his friends unless they're boring. The fun and excitement will fade and life will be just life.

Charm has a short shelf-life. A fellow should ask himself: Is her mind such that he wants to spend forty years talking to her?

Maybe so. Some women are great that way. One was reported in San Francisco a few years ago, and I know of one in Canada. (Actually a fair number of gals are seriously bright. But Willy Bill probably won't marry one. Anyway, ask yourself the question.)

However, the overarching aspect of marriage, the one that ought to be part of the dictionary definition, is that Sally will get the children. She'll get the house too, but the world is full of houses. The kids are the killer.

Women have a mysterious power to fog men's minds. I hear Willy Bill saying, "Divorce? Impossible. Sally's adorable. Even if it happened, we'd still be friends." There was a case of this reported too. In central China. Pre-Confucius. Scholars debate its authenticity.

Willy Bill very likely will get divorced, which will very likely be Sally's idea, and she will get the kids with virtual certainty. Further (and he won't believe it in the full flood of hormonal misjudgment) she will in all likelihood use them against him. Even if not, she'll remarry and move to the other end of the country, and he will be lucky if he sees the kids a week at Christmas. Willy Bill now faces fifteen years of child support for children he will barely know. At best Sally will be heartless about it, at worst vengeful. The courts will support her every step of the way.

If you think this doesn't happen, regularly, think again. Think several times.

The way to avoid the morass is simply not to marry. Thanks to the Sexual Revolution, guys don't have to. Find one you like and live with her. If you get along, keep on living together. Maybe you will have a long, happy life together. It happens. However, most women give the marry-me-or-leave ultimatum in about two years max, which means that you'll have to find another. This is unpleasant, but then the variety is nice. Serial monagamy isn't too bad. (I personally prefer parallel monogamy, but it isn't real practical.)

Once you tie the knot, your house is toast. But the for-keeps breakpoint, the one that really hurts, is children. Dead serious, guys, watch this one. Here, Sally holds all the high cards. I talk to a lot of men who are going crazy because the ex just remarried and went to Oregon with the kids. They do this. All the time.

Remember that after the divorce, Sally is going to hate you. The divorce will have been your fault. You will have failed her in every way. You won't have met her expectations. That's the opening hand.

She will want to remarry. Fine. If you're crazy, maybe you will want to remarry. How much do you think she's going to want you around, after she has re-daddied your children? Is she going to tell New Daddy he can't take that promotion in Oregon because of your rights to see your kids?

As a rule, she won't concede that you have a right to see your sprats, or that they have any stake in seeing their father. Her rationale will be the passive-aggressive formulation, "Well, he's so insensitive I just can't believe he really wants to see them, blah blah blah."

This is Sally, remember, with the perky smile and soft lips.

Don't do it, guys. At least, don't do it unless you have a bomb-proof pre-nup saying that when the divorce comes, either party who leaves the region has to leave the kids with the other.

It's a hell of a way to begin a marriage. But do it. Do it because you can count on one thing: The courts will be absolutely on her side.

Better yet, if you want kids, go to Asia and marry. The women are feminine (consult your dictionary), beautiful, agreeable (consult your dictionary), and don't have cellulite.

Don't marry,guys. Stay single. The feminists are right on this one. And when you get married anyway and lose the house and kids, remember that weird columnist who said it would happen, and he was right.

Source


59 posted on 08/17/2003 3:50:16 PM PDT by StatesEnemy
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To: joesnuffy
Wow, she sounds dreadful!!
fortunatly im no longer married, but we have been divorced for 3 years now. our docket with the courts is six pages long...ALOT of litigation, petty stuff. i signed a pro se and left his retirement, stocks bonds ect for him. left him the house, cars, ect. still he has been vindictive, ran the house into repo, got an attorney behind my back, forged my name to taxes, and to another prose document and neglected to tell me about the hearing..insanity, and litigates atleast 4x a year to this day..this is the first motion he has filed that isnt "petty".
usually men get the shaft, i agree, but in this court he can do no wrong and they dont consider it harrasment until our docket is 10pages! our son is only 7 so thats alot more litigation before he is 18. i dont understand why ppl fight like they do in divorces, its about the KIDS, not about getting revenge or driving the other into the poor house. my attny doesnt seem to think any motion thats ligit for child support reduction is ever denied. im confused why so many ppl posting here know others who have been. seems cut and dry to me, what exuses do these judges have for denying a sincere request?
60 posted on 08/17/2003 3:51:36 PM PDT by moondancer
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