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Jefferson Davis: beyond a statue-tory matter
The Courier-Journal ^ | July 27, 2003 | Bill Cunningham

Posted on 07/27/2003 5:08:19 PM PDT by thatdewd

Edited on 05/07/2004 6:46:56 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The writer is a circuit judge who lives in Kuttawa, Ky.

KUTTAWA, Ky. - The Courier Journal, at the behest of its columnist John David Dyche, has called for the removal of the Jefferson Davis statue in the rotunda of the Kentucky State Capitol. Such a supposedly politically correct viewpoint reflects a shallow, selective and even hypocritical understanding of history.


(Excerpt) Read more at courier-journal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: Kentucky
KEYWORDS: constitution; dixie; dixielist; independence; secession; statue; wbts
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Various state governments tried to secede but failed.

Their secession was de facto for four long years. It was ultimately suppressed by coercion, but that it happened cannot be denied. So you live with that.

241 posted on 07/31/2003 12:40:49 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
And a thief has de facto ownership of his loot until he's arrested.

242 posted on 07/31/2003 12:45:18 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
Indeed so. Lincoln's first speechs on slavery advocated colonization and he is known to have been pushing it in the last months of his life.

The last surviving official correspondence in which Lincoln is known to have pushed colonization is a November 30, 1864 letter to him from AG Edward Bates. In that letter Bates explicitly provides Lincoln with a legal opinion that Lincoln had requested of him. That opinion was to permit him to retain Mitchell as his colonization commissioner and permit Mitchell to continue pursuing colonization. The last anecdotal account of Lincoln pushing colonization is from Ben Butler a few months later in the spring and only a few days before Lincoln died. Nowhere in any of Lincoln's correspondences is there any evidence whatsoever that he ever abandoned or repudiated his colonization beliefs.

243 posted on 07/31/2003 12:53:52 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: Grand Old Partisan
And a thief has de facto ownership of his loot until he's arrested.

False analogy. A thief, in his act, assumes determination of the rights of another. A secessionist, in his act, assumes determination of the rights of himself.

244 posted on 07/31/2003 1:01:55 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: Grand Old Partisan
A CSA judiciary would be a federal judiciary,

Not necessarily. States at the time could and did rule on cases involving federal matters all the time, thus serving the role of a judiciary on those same matters.

245 posted on 07/31/2003 1:02:58 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist; Ditto; Non-Sequitur; justshutupandtakeit; donmeaker; WhiskyPapa
Not true. By order of "President" Davis, all issues from rebel state courts involving other states or the Confederate government were to be brought for resolution to the Confederate Attorney General.
246 posted on 07/31/2003 1:09:34 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: GOPcapitalist
Ah Say Sir

Speaking of statues and Jeff Davis and the victory of the south gives me an idea for a great new addition to Stone Mountain.

Ya see sir, the south did eventually triumph over the north. Only it took us a hundred years to do it. We southerners were held back by reconstruction and later by the Jim Crow south.

The final victory was earned by the hard work of General Martin Luther King. Victory for all of us besides the Talmadges etc. Hey 30% of the population in the south could'nt have a checking aaccount, get a loan, or a decent house because of the Jim Crow bull crap. Aided and abetted by the yankee north, the southern elites held the power and the money for all those years.

The addition to Stone Mountain should be MLK's likenss just above Jeff Davis' likeness. Position MLK so that every time it rains MLK appears to be pissing on Jeff Davis

This Jeff Davis worship is akin to wishing the Dimmicratz would take the south back over and bring back Jim Crow. Geez, you folks go live in California or Vermont or some other doofuss place. Leave the ones of us who made it on our own after Jim Crow alone. Jeff Davis was an unmitigated SOB.
247 posted on 07/31/2003 1:15:58 PM PDT by palmerizedCaddis (What is a RODHAM?)
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To: GOPcapitalist
A foreign vessle has no right to patrol the harbor of another nation without it's consent, both then and now. Thus the Harriet Lane was an aggressor when it fired.

The Harriet Lane was patrolling American waters, and not one nation in the world disputed that fact then nor in the years afterward. Not one nation in the world recognized the Confederacy, then or ever.

248 posted on 07/31/2003 1:48:23 PM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: GOPcapitalist
...and those are just a few of his many violations of the highest law in the land.

The term "police state" certainly comes to mind.

249 posted on 07/31/2003 2:22:12 PM PDT by thatdewd
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To: thatdewd
The Confederacy was a police state. The United States of America never has been a plice state.
250 posted on 07/31/2003 2:27:15 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Ditto
His point was this: "Moreover, 2/3 of the revenues enjoyed by the federal government came from the South, because of the tariffs and various other taxes."

For calendar year 1860, according to The Department of Commerce, the percentage of the total value of US exports of cotton and tobacco was 65%. Data from this department shows that foreign goods were taken in trade, not specie.

As of February 1861, all this cotton and tobacco was leaving from Southern ports, and returning to same in the form of foreign goods on foreign ships.

Since 97% of the Union treasury was supplied by tariffs, all of a sudden the Union was broke.

251 posted on 07/31/2003 2:55:26 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge; Ditto
Not hardly was the U. S. Government broke. Remember, the federal government expended nearly $4 billion during the Civil War (in 1860s money !!), almost none of which was raised in the South.
252 posted on 07/31/2003 3:08:55 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Grand Old Partisan; GOPcapitalist
A CSA judiciary would be a federal judiciary, which -- one more time -- did not exist in the Confederacy.

Then what was the Confederate Congress doing authorizing district judges and other positions in various states as officers of the CSA Department of Justice? From records of the Confederate Congress:

Montgomery, May 21, 1861.

Hon. Howell Cobb,
President of the Congress.

Sir: I have the honor to submit herewith for the consideration of the Congress a list of nominations in the Department of Justice.

Very respectfully,

JEFFERSON DAVIS.

Montgomery, May 21, 1861.

To the President.

Sir: I have the honor to submit the following names for nomination to offices in the Department of Justice:

1. Daniel Ringo to be judge of the district court for the district of Arkansas.
2. James D. Halyburton to be judge of the district court for the eastern district of Virginia.
3. John W. Brockenbrough to be judge of the district court for the western district of Virginia.
4. Charles E. Jordan to be district attorney for the eastern district of Arkansas.
5. Granville Wilcox to be district attorney for the western district of Arkansas.
6. Patrick H. Aylett to be district attorney for the eastern district of Virginia.
7. Fleming Bowyer Miller to be district attorney for the western district of Virginia.
8. John G. Halliburton to be marshal for the eastern district of Arkansas.
9. James M. Brown to be marshal for the western district of Arkansas.
10. John F. Wiley to be marshal for the eastern district of Virginia.
11. Jefferson T. Martin to be marshal for the western district of Virginia.
12. Rufus R. Rhodes, of Mississippi, to be Commissioner of Patents.

Respectfully, your obedient servant,

J. P. BENJAMIN.

The question being,

Will the Congress advise and consent to the nominations above communicated?

It was unanimously decided in the affirmative.


253 posted on 07/31/2003 3:27:04 PM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
"Then what was the Confederate Congress doing authorizing district judges and other positions in various states as officers of the CSA Department of Justice?"

No clue, given that no CSA judges were ever appointed and no CSA court system was ever even authorized.

254 posted on 07/31/2003 3:35:50 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Grand Old Partisan
In the US, district courts are the trial courts of the federal court system. Were the Confederate district courts different? And were the marshals being appointed by the Confederate Congress different from our current federal marshals?

See: US Courts

255 posted on 07/31/2003 4:21:54 PM PDT by rustbucket
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To: nolu chan
My goal, my quest, is to irritate liberal trolls such as you by serving as a constant reminder of your intellectual inferiority.

Well if your goal is to irritate me and leave me in awe of the powers of your intellect then I'm sorry to say that you're failing miserably.

256 posted on 07/31/2003 4:48:27 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: rustbucket
Were the Confederate district courts different?

There were no confederate district federal courts, at least no records exist of any decision being handed down by one. There was no confederate supreme court, no confederate judiciary at all other than individual state courts. I'm not aware of any confederate version of the U.S. Marshal. Absent a federal court system what purpose would they have served?

257 posted on 07/31/2003 6:32:37 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Ditto
The first shot was actually fired a month before when Confederate batteries openned fire on the civilian vessel Star of the West as it entered Charleston Harbor.

The second shot of the war was fired a week or so before Sumter when the confederate batteries opened up on the Rhoda Shannon, an ice schooner flying the Stars and Stripes that strayed into the harbor.

258 posted on 07/31/2003 6:40:20 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Ditto
I believe it was James Petigru who said that South Carolina was too small to be a country and too large to be an insane asylum. I think he was wrong on the second part.
259 posted on 07/31/2003 6:42:45 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Grand Old Partisan
The United States of America never has been a police state.

It most certainly became one when Lincoln illegally suspended habeas corpus in order to arrest and imprison thousands of Americans without warrant or due process.

260 posted on 07/31/2003 7:15:53 PM PDT by thatdewd
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