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Home-schooling standoff (MA Liberals try to get state custody for 'abused' home-schooled kids)
Metrowest Daily ^ | 6/13/03 | Beecher

Posted on 06/13/2003 12:26:29 PM PDT by pabianice

"We have legal custody of the children and we will do with them as we see fit," DSS worker Susan Etscovitz told the Bryants in their Gale Street home. "They are minors and they do what we tell them to do!"

WALTHAM, MA -- A legal battle over two home-schooled children exploded into a seven-hour standoff yesterday, when they refused to take a standardized test ordered by the Department of Social Services.

George Nicholas Bryant, 15, and Nyssa Bryant, 13, stood behind their parents, Kim and George, as police and DSS workers attempted to collect the children at 7:45 a.m. DSS demanded that the two complete a test to determine their educational level.

After a court order was issued by Framingham Juvenile Court around 1 p.m., the children were driven by their parents to a Waltham hotel.

Again, they refused to take the test.

"The court order said that the children must be here. It said nothing about taking the test," said George Bryant.

The second refusal came after an emotion-filled morning for the family, when DSS workers sternly demanded the Bryants comply with their orders.

"We have legal custody of the children and we will do with them as we see fit," DSS worker Susan Etscovitz told the Bryants in their Gale Street home. "They are minors and they do what we tell them to do."

Four police officers were also at the scene and attempted to coax the Bryants to listen to the DSS worker.

"We are simply here to prevent a breach of the peace," said Waltham Youth Officer Detective James Auld. "We will will not physically remove the children."

Yesterday's events are the continuation of a six-year legal battle between the family and Waltham Public Schools and the state.

The Bryants contend that the city and state do not have the legal right to force their children to take standardized tests, even though DSS workers have threatened to take their children from them.

"There have been threats all along. Most families fall to that bullying by the state and the legal system," said George Bryant.

"But this has been a six-year battle between the Waltham Public Schools and our family over who is in control of the education of our children," Bryant continued. "In the end the law of this state will protect us."

The Bryant children have never attended public school.

Both sides agree that the children are in no way abused mentally, physically, sexually or emotionally, but legal custody of the children was taken from Kim and George Bryant in December 2001. The children will remain under the legal custody of DSS until their 16th birthdays.

The parents have been ruled as unfit because they did not file educational plans or determine a grading system for the children, two criteria of Waltham Public School's home schooling policy.

"We do not believe in assessing our children based on a number or letter. Their education process is their personal intellectual property," said Bryant.

George Bryant said he was arrested six years ago, after not attending a meeting that the city contends he was summoned to. The meeting was called by the Waltham School Department for his failure to send his children to school.

"We want these issues aired in the open, in public. The school system and DSS have fought to keep this behind closed doors," said Bryant.

Superintendent of Schools Susan Parrella said she was unaware of yesterday's incident and that, currently the school department approves of the education plan filed by DSS for the Bryant children.

"An acceptable home school plan is in place right now," said Parrella. "I was not aware of any testing occurring today."

The Bryant children freely admit that they have no intention of taking a test.

"We don't want to take the test. We have taken them before and I don't think they are a fair assessment of what we know," said Nyssa Bryant. "And no one from DSS has ever asked us what we think."

Kenneth Pontes, area director of DSS, denied that workers have never talked to the children privately, but admitted that this type of case isn't often seen by his office.

"This is an unusual case. Different school systems require different regulations for home-schooled children. Waltham requires testing," said Pontes.

Pontes said that a possibility exists that the children will be removed from their home, but that was a last course of action.

"No one wants these children to be put in foster homes. The best course of action would for (the Bryants) to instruct the children to take the test," said Etscovitz.

The Bryant family is due in Framingham District Court this morning, to go before a juvenile court judge. According to DSS, this session will determine what their next course of action will be and if the children will be removed from the Bryants' home.

"These are our children and they have and always will be willing participants in their education," said Kim Bryant.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Breaking News; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: homeschooling
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To: ConstitutionLover
Please prove that I believe everything I read in the newspaper.

Please give us the facts you have that show this account of arrest to be a lie. Enlighten us with your vast knowledge of this case.

You cannot just state that he is lying with no fact.
381 posted on 06/18/2003 11:27:45 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: ConstitutionLover
You are obviously unwilling to surrender any liberty which means you should find yourself a society somewhere in the world that has no government. Good Luck!

Please prove that I have not surrendered any liberties.

382 posted on 06/18/2003 11:29:55 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: CyberCowboy777
You have, in fact, surrendered liberties by simply living under the government of the United States of America (or any other government on this planet). What I said was that you are "unwillingly" to surrender those liberties. You obviously feel you are being forced to surrender too many of your liberties. So go live in another country and see how many liberties you have!
383 posted on 06/18/2003 11:46:34 AM PDT by ConstitutionLover
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To: ConstitutionLover
You know nothing about the founding fathers except what has been drilled into your little head

Please prove that I know nothing about the founding fathers except what has been drilled into my little head by the extremist libertarians. Show us how I am wrong, how the Founding Fathers DID advocate FORCED education.

You sure make allot of fluff statements without much substance. Mostly in an effort to demoralize or demonize the other side. Nothing I have said is extremist, I am not advocating nuclear weapon for private citizenss or the defunding of public highways. I am saying that it is wrong for the State to FORCE education and many agree with me, so you can stop your unfounded lies about me.

384 posted on 06/18/2003 11:47:34 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: CyberCowboy777
I didn't claim that he is lying but I don't necessarily believe him either. But I'm sure you would believe him simply because what he says helps your distorted little cause.
385 posted on 06/18/2003 11:53:48 AM PDT by ConstitutionLover
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To: ConstitutionLover
I am not going to go somewhere else just because you think the Government is 'just right' in it interference!!!

I know how many liberties I have, I also know what blood my family sacrifice for them.

If I was "unwillingly" to surrender those liberties (all of them by your statement) I would not be a free man in this state. You are wrong.

I am unwilling to surrender the right to educate my children the way I see fit. It is Freedom of association, Freedom of Religion, the Right to Life and Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness by MY standards, not yours. I am in no violation of life or property, I hurt you in no way by teaching my kids my way.

I am not taking your ability to test your kids, I am not forcing you to teach your kids my way, I am saying STEP OFF.
386 posted on 06/18/2003 11:55:29 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: ConstitutionLover
I didn't claim that he is lying but I don't necessarily believe him either. But I'm sure you would believe him simply because what he says helps your distorted little cause.

So you have no fact, you just don't believe him. Simply because doing so helps your distorted little cause?

By what standard do you accuse me of believing lies (that you cannot prove are lies) just to push my agenda? You are the one accusing him of lying without proof. At least what I think happened is accounted, your just making stuff up.

387 posted on 06/18/2003 11:59:22 AM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: pabianice
*** Superintendent of Schools Susan Parrella said she was unaware of yesterday's incident and that, currently the school department approves of the education plan filed by DSS for the Bryant children. "An acceptable home school plan is in place right now," said Parrella. "I was not aware of any testing occurring today." ***

SO what's the beef?

388 posted on 06/18/2003 12:01:50 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: ConstitutionLover
I didn't claim that he is lying

2. You would believe a statement made by a nutcase like that.

378 posted on 06/18/2003 10:55 AM PDT by ConstitutionLover

I think you are pretty much calling him a liar. Make up your mind.

389 posted on 06/18/2003 12:02:04 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: CyberCowboy777
Show me one iota of evidence you have presented in all your ramblings that proves anything. Prove to me that your statements are no less "fluff" than mine! I offered the words of John Adams in the Massachusetts Constitution as proof that the founding fathers of Massachusetts intended for the government to promote education for all citizens. What have you offered?????
390 posted on 06/18/2003 12:04:20 PM PDT by ConstitutionLover
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To: ConstitutionLover
Please explain how my two quotes are not relevant in this case.

Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
- Daniel Webster

Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies, The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
- C.S. Lewis

391 posted on 06/18/2003 12:05:38 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: ConstitutionLover
I offered the words of John Adams in the Massachusetts Constitution as proof that the founding fathers of Massachusetts intended for the government to promote education for all citizens

You have provided just that. Proof that the founding fathers of Massachusetts intended for the government to promote education for all citizens. NOT FORCE.

Please provide proof that the Founding Father advocated FORCED education.

392 posted on 06/18/2003 12:07:34 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The school department has no beef. This is totally between the family and DSS who now has custody of the children. Doesn't anyone wonder how that could have happened to this perfectly "normal" family?
393 posted on 06/18/2003 12:09:51 PM PDT by ConstitutionLover
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To: ConstitutionLover
Prove to me that your statements are no less "fluff" than mine!

You want me to provide proof that the Founding Fathers did not advocate FORCED education?

394 posted on 06/18/2003 12:10:43 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: ConstitutionLover
It's all too typical with what you hear about child services. It's a national disgrace.
395 posted on 06/18/2003 12:12:55 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: CyberCowboy777
Bravo! Well said, sir!
396 posted on 06/18/2003 12:14:16 PM PDT by BSunday (My other post is a pulitzer - winner)
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To: CyberCowboy777
I am not "making stuff up" but why do you believe him any more than you believe me? His statement in a newspaper is no more believable than mine here.
397 posted on 06/18/2003 12:14:22 PM PDT by ConstitutionLover
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To: ConstitutionLover
perfectly "normal" family?

By who's standards? The society that pays millions to see Ozzy Osborne on TV? Or just your standards?

Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein were hardly considered normal.

398 posted on 06/18/2003 12:15:22 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: ConstitutionLover
You are making stuff up, you cannot prove that he is lying.

This man is living the situation and I am not sorry that I give him a little more credence than a person on the internet who has no facts. Now if the LEO of the county or city stated something contradictory to him I would believe the LEO. I am not 'all for him', but you expect me to believe you over him in a matter you have no information about?
399 posted on 06/18/2003 12:19:18 PM PDT by CyberCowboy777 (They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.)
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To: CyberCowboy777
You'll have to ask TaxRelief. That was his word I was quoting:

To: Notwithstanding

What on earth looks nutty about this family?
They look like a perfectly normal family.
What don't you like? The dog?


36 posted on 06/13/2003 3:53 PM EDT by TaxRelief

400 posted on 06/18/2003 12:20:27 PM PDT by ConstitutionLover
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