Techies see jobs go overseas - Opposition to offshore outsourcing beginning to grow

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 06/02/2003 | Carrie Kirby

[NCjim]

Daniel Soong waited in line at the dingy, low-ceilinged Employment Development Department in Pleasant Hill, hoping to find some clerical work or any kind of work at all.

At 30, this is not where the thin, neatly dressed computer programmer expected to be. Nor did he expect, after seven years in the technology industry, to have to move back into his parents' Pleasanton house.

"I would like to meet a girl and start a family, but that's not really possible unless you have a good job," he said.

Unlike many people who have lost their jobs during the economic slump, Soong does not hold out much hope that his career will get back on track when the economy picks up. He belongs to a growing contingent of technology professionals who believe that prospects for their field have permanently dimmed because companies are sending work overseas.

Soong and others like him are forming the beginning of an anti- offshoring movement. In California, Connecticut, New Jersey and Washington, groups of computer professionals are searching for ways -- from legislation to tax incentives -- to somehow slow the flow of high-paying jobs overseas.

[oceanview]

Its because they don't understand what is going on. They are all millionaires, do you really expect Rush or Hannity to understand this issue? Look at the threads on FR on this topic, most people who don't see it first hand, don't believe it is a problem at all. Try and get through the call screener with an issue like this for Rush, you'll be cut off.

[harpseal]

Shouldn't that be the whole country? Corporate income tax is just passed on to the consumer. Without a corporate income tax, the US would start sucking up corporations from all over the world.

I agree it would be wonderful to get such a tax change over the whole country but clearly that big a change would be impossible to put through Congress in the forseable future. however, by starting with these zones we would encourage domestic manufacture in them and that manufacture would use domestic components when possible. Needless to say I include generation of engineering services and IT services to be a part of the "manufacture of goods and services.

Further as a demonstration this would generate a whole lot more support for such a program.

[harpseal]

I wouldn't mind so much seeing companies using offshore outsourcing so much if I were not being taxed to pay for my own economic death.

[EverOnward]

Those jobs do not belong to Americans; they belong to the people who create them, and pay for them.

A lot of those jobs are "created" because consumers need or want a product or service here in the USA. If Americans have no jobs, there won't be the "consuming" that will continue to "create" jobs.

I've read your posts on other threads and frankly I think you're doing a fine job playing the devils advocate. Since you get your retirement check from the government, you must be bored -- so livening up the dialogue on FR is appreciated. It carries the thread longer so that more people can become informed. The sooner the college grads realize what our elected officials are doing to them, the better. Keep it up Pukin Dog. You're doing a great service.

[SwordofTruth]

I'm sure a prison sentence will do wonders for their employability.

At least in prision they would not have to worry about being homeless or starving. That's of course if there is any one smart enough in India to catch them. LOL!

[harpseal]

The use of enterprise zones and traffis to retaliate against nations that engage in currency controls or have tarriffs against our goods has a long Republican pedigree and was a traditional Democrat agrument against Republicans. Now I am suggesting the Republican Party adopt a non socialist stance and remove teh government interference in the free market within the USA and enact those measures necessary to bring presure to bear on those nations which trade with us to cease and desist in the artificial propping up of their markets to dump goods and dervices in teh USA to increase teh investment in their nation.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Thanks for posting this article. Rush and the other conservative pundents have lost credibility with me as I rarely hear them talk about all the jobs going outside our country. If they do talk about the jobs leaving (and it's never really in that context), it's with a sneer towards those who find the situation alarming.

The entire media is doing the same as Rush. It's seldom brought up, while the working people are getting hammered in the trenches. Kind of like the illegal alien/immigration crisis, seldom a word about it in the general media, and nothing is done about it, yet it's everywhere. Dangerous issues that are of great concern and that are affecting every one of us, and our country, are being routinely ignored, over looked, or covered up.

[harpseal]

I'll be leaving now, this is going to be another silly screaming match, of which I have no desire to participate in.

Promises promises.

[Uncle Miltie]

"the number of IT positions in the US is actually falling because of offshoring"

A recent recession, a capital spending bust and net efficiencies in IT shops also have employment levels down.

[FR_addict]

Just today, IBM is being investigated by the SEC for their accounting practices.

I have no doubt there are kickbacks going on between some of the execs and companies in India. Where I worked, the VP of Engineering was from Pakistan and he and his Indian friends started sending out the jobs to a company in India approximately a year after coming onboard.

No, this wasn't a CEO, but someone who had the power to send the jobs overseas. The company is in the same shape as when I was laid off. Instead of fixing the problems, companies are hiding the problems by cutting costs rather than developing good quality products.

The company I worked for also had plenty of money in cash reserves. They brag about their $5 billion dollars in reserves. This money could have been spent on research and development with good old American nohow and I bet the company would be in a lot better shape.

While laying off a good portion of the workforce, the top execs were given penny stock options and huge bonuses.

[Nowhere Man]

Thanks for posting this article. Rush and the other conservative pundents have lost credibility with me as I rarely hear them talk about all the jobs going outside our country. If they do talk about the jobs leaving (and it's never really in that context), it's with a sneer towards those who find the situation alarming.

Rush is cool, but as you pointed out and I've noticed too, that he tends to sweep these issues under the rug. One talkshow host I like is Chuck Harder when I can catch him on shortwave, online, or on a weak AM station. He brings this issue up a lot and a lot of times, he on the mark. His webside is http://www.forthepeople.org He tends to talk about a lot of issues that are so below the noise yet are important to us.

[FR_addict]

"I've said this on every thread on this topic I've posted on: this issue is the Republicans achilles heel, Bush will skate by in 2004, but alot of freepers will be crying in 2008 when Hillary is elected president, asking "who would vote for her?". these folks whose jobs are being gutted by these visa and offshoring practices, add them to the list of people pulling the lever for her. "

I agree that this issue needs to be addressed by Republicans, but you can see the same attitude with the Democrats as seen in the other thread below. If a Democrat takes on this issue, he could win the election. One of the guys at work who was hired at the same time I was, said he used to be a Republican until now. He wasn't out of work as long as I was and he is a lot younger. (They are also getting rid of older workers, so I had another strike against me.)

I going to show him the article below to prove that Democrats aren't doing anything either.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/921165/posts?page=52

Outsourcing, visa curbs not in US interest: Congressman
Economic Times of India ^ | May 29, 2003
Posted on 06/01/2003 4:11 AM PDT by sarcasm
NEW DELHI: While the bills introduced to limit outsourcing and L-1 visas in the US Congress and state legislatures should be treated with a degree of seriousness, there is no need to lose sleep over it.
It is not in the interest of the US to take the protectionist path, feels US Congressman Jay Inslee. The congressman was addressing a CII forum on “Globalisation & Business Process Outsourcing: Win Win for India and the US” in Delhi today. etc....

[FR_addict]

Did you see these links?

http://www.betterimmigration.com

http://www.h1b.info

[FR_addict]

I really would like to see something done about this issue.
I'm glad you pointed out that the guy in the article is probably an American citizen.

[Jorge]

Get ready for miswired & improperly maintained aircraft coming from overhaul centers in China, Mexico etc. Airline execs are firing higher paid personnel and supervisors, outsourcing the work to foreign "chop shops", and eliminating anyone with spine enough to refuse siging off work. WHERE's the FAA?

Guess what congressmen, YOU RIDE THOSE AIRCRAFT TOO!

The above scenerio you describe is unrealistic.

No Airline executive in his right mind is going to compromise on quality when it comes to aircraft manufacturing or maintainance, because having aircraft go down can spell disaster for a business.
The lawsuits alone can bankrupt them.

And nobody in management..and no supervisor in this business is going to knowingly sign off on inferior or negligent work knowing they can and will go to jail for doing so.

The idea that they would fire or "eliminate" workers who refuse to sign off on work that violates industry standards or FAA rules is absurd..because all these industries provide anonymous hot-lines to report such violations..and they could easily have such a supervisor fired and or put in jail.

The reason we have thousands of flights a day and crashes are so rare is because this is an industry that is very strickly regulated by the FAA and investigations into accidents are so incredibly meticulous and thorough that the causes are almost always identified...right down to the faulty part..the manufacturer, the supplier of the materials, every process performed on the material, every inspector that signed off on it along the way etc. etc.

Any company that does what you describe above would not remain in business very long.

[Drango]

If Soong is an oriental and the programming jobs are going to orientals, what's the difference? He came here for a job and now finds they are elsewhere? Two wrongs don't make a right.

What? Why is it that people without a western sounding name get treated like sh*t here? Soong may or may not be a native born citizen. But he is a citizen!

The undercurrent of racism here needs to stop. It's demeaning to conservates and FreeRepublic.

[glorgau]

Here is where IT is headed. Companies will put out RFPs over the Internet. Individual programmers can submit bids offering their services for a price.

The catch to this is that most companies do not know what they want.

[dfwgator]

The catch to this is that most companies do not know what they want.

BINGO!!! And that's why offshoring is ultimately going to not be the silver bullet that CEOs are expecting it to be. The fact is most programmers do a lot more than programming, they bring business knowledge, the ability to take vague or non-existant requirements and create business solutions to problems. This requires communications skills and the ability to understand just what the users are trying to accomplish. When you try to take that knowledge and try to pass it off to another programmer, a lot of information gets lost in the shuffle, no matter how well the specs are documented. In the end, they think they are saving money, but then what happens a year later when they have to scramble and find consultants at $100/hour to fix the problems that were created by the cheap programmers in the first place?? You get what you pay for.

[droberts]

They have no regards for the human condition in general, meaning they can pay slave labor rates with which a civilized country cannot compete.