Understanding Islam And Its Radicals

ConservativeTruth.org ^ | November 11, 2001 | Ana Barrett

[FatherOfLiberty]

Except that in our fallen state, we have never been wholly abandoned by G-d to the propensity toward total evil.

On the basis of God's Word, I must disagree with you. Please note again the following:

(Gen 6:5 NKJV) "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

(Gen 8:21 NKJV)  "And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done."

(Rom 8:7 NKJV)  "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."

Please note the emphasized text, especially in the last passage - the carnal mind is at war against God, it CANNOT be subject to the law of God. To say that man has some hidden propensity for good allows man to claim some part in his salvation, i.e. a "decision for Christ" as promoted by Calvanism.

Universal grace is defined as God's undeserved love and kindness offered to all mankind, most succinctly stated in John 3:16. Universal grace does not mean that all people will be saved - only those who rely totally on the redeption of our sins through the atoning sacrafice of Jesus Christ on the cross.

FatherOfLiberty
A Confessional Lutheran

[watchin]

The premise is that bin Laden is attacking us in order to goad us into retaliation, so that in turn, Muslims can be goaded into hating us.

On that we can agree. He wants a clash of cultures - the jihadists vs. the crusaders. He seems to think that if he can provoke this, Allah will take care of the rest.

[Uncle Miltie]

Right, man is inherently evil...we must fight everyday to be "good".

My personal view would moderate that somewhat: Man is flawed, with both the possibility of good and evil. Religion, civilization, logic, ethics, and morals can encourage more good, and help disuade evil. I agree that it is a personal daily fight to bring out the good and suppress the evil.

[aruanan]

A Confessional Lutheran

Well, there you go.

[Gargantua]

In a debate, the debater who first has to resort to pounding the table and yelling is always the one who has thus already lost the debate.

Carried out, the same precept involves disputes over religious beliefs. The side (Islam) first to resort to blowing people up and killing innocent civilians (of all races and creeds) in order to make its point, is by so doing admitting that it has no valid point, or function, or place, in society.

It is but a lethal disease which must be eradicated for the good of mankind.

[Uncle Miltie]

"Why do WE have to understand them?"

After we bomb the bejesus out of them, rout the jihadis, capture bin-Laden, overthrow the Saudis, liberate Iran, etc. there will be a time when persuasion will matter.

At that point, we can build on the useful bits of their thinking, and undermine or destroy the unhealthy bits. Thus my original post noting their Fatal Flaws. We'll have to transform substantial parts of their world-view, or our civilization will be attacked by them for centuries.

I'm willing to give it a good 50 year try to help avoid the 500-years-war. Thus the pointy headedness in the midst of war.

For now, we'll all cheer heartily when the Marines kick the Shiite out of the Republican Guards!

[FatherOfLiberty]

I meant to add the following to close my last post:

Univeral grace is extended to all people of all time - God desires all people to be saved. He offers us salvation through the work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit only works through the means (vehicle/tool) of the Gospel in Word and Sacraments. The rejection of this univeral grace is solely the fault/responsibility of the individual.

[Stand Watch Listen]

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[Ga Rob]

I just hold that it is a whole lot easier for a man to do evil than it is to do good. All the things you listed help disuade a man from doing evil...if it weren't for those things we would still be clubbing each other over the head and takiing what we want.

[jimt]

The premise is that bin Laden is attacking us in order to goad us into retaliation, so that in turn, Muslims can be goaded into hating us.

Luis, they react negatively to ANYTHING we do unless it's complete and utter capitulation. Even that would not be good enough for some.

However, they aren't fools and do respect power. Not pinpricks like the successful retaliatory strikes Israel has done, but complete and utter regime replacement as will be done with Saddam and his merry band of thugs.

It may give the cowards some pause for thought before they kill another 3000 innocnt Americans. Little bullies tend to think twice after a big bully gets his ass roundly kicked.

[Ga Rob]

"There is no expiration date on idiocy"....

Very funny...totally true. I'll have to remember that.

[ggekko]

I think you misunderstood my point.

Many people have become enamored with Samuel Huntington's thesis about the "war of civilizaztions". The posted article was premised on the Huntingon idea.

The simplest explanation is always preferable. In my view, we are not at war with Islam but with a series of Islamo-Facist states in the Arabian peninsula. We have relatively decent relations with several non-Arabic Moslem states such as Indonesia.

[spodefly]

Muslim apologist BS and deep as a puddle on a pooltable BUMP.

[Uncle Miltie]

"I just hold that it is a whole lot easier for a man to do evil than it is to do good."

Bump for Truth.

[FITZ]

I'm sick of trying to understand them.

I think it is good to try to understand them, to know their mindset, to know what makes them tick. Just like Nazism and Communism, what is the appeal in those ideologies for certain types ----and why they must be our enemies. Islam doesn't intend to share the world with Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity or anything else and the sooner we understand that the better.

[FITZ]

they react negatively to ANYTHING we do unless it's complete and utter capitulation.

Muslims even admit they want peace on earth but that peace can only be obtained when everyone is living under allah's law, the koran, otherwise there must be strife and wars. They really do want peace ---it just isn't peace the way we define it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"The simplest explanation is always preferable. In my view, we are not at war with Islam but with a series of Islamo-Facist states in the Arabian peninsula. We have relatively decent relations with several non-Arabic Moslem states such as Indonesia."

Absolutely.

While 80% of Arabs are Muslims, 80% of Muslims are not Arabs. Yet 90% of the world's troubles with Islamic radicals occur in Arabic countries.

I don't accept any theory which has at its core the words "them" or "they", and fails to draw distinctions between radicals, moderates, or secular Muslims.

Lumping all Muslims under a "they" categorization plays into what I believe to be bin Laden's hand.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Muslims even admit they want peace on earth but that peace can only be obtained when everyone is living under allah's law, the koran, otherwise there must be strife and wars. They really do want peace ---it just isn't peace the way we define it."

"What takes place after the Rapture?"

"After The Rapture, God will begin executing judgments against unbelievers, during a period called the Tribulation. At the end of the Tribulation all nations will attack Israel, and Jesus Christ will physically return, leading the armies of heaven. At the Battle of Armeggedon they will destroy everyone who is not a believer. Then Satan will be bound, and Jesus will set up the Millennial Kingdom, headquartered in Jerusalem. Jesus and the saints will rule over the nations of the Earth for a thousand years. During this period there will be people born who are not loyal to Christ. However, it usually will not be obvious. Therefore, at the end of the thousand-year period, God will release Satan and let him tempt those who inhabit the Earth. A large group will take up arms against the Lord and be defeated. Then, Christ will judge all who have ever lived, giving rewards to some and punishment to others. Those who were "destroyed" will be cast into the Lake of Fire, i.e., Hell. After that, God will destroy heaven and Earth because they have been polluted by sin. He will create a new heaven and a new Earth, put those who were saved on the new Earth, and rule it forever."---Source.

[TLBSHOW]

bump

[Texas Mom]

Muslim apologist BS and deep as a puddle on a pooltable BUMP.

I agree Bump...

AN AMERICAN MUSLIM: AN OXYMORON

A Colonel in the Saudi Arabian Army once told an American officer, "We can be friendly, but we will never be friends."

Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?

THEOLOGICALLY: No, because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

GEOGRAPHICALLY: No, because his allegiance is to Mecca, which he turns in prayers five times a day.

SOCIALLY: No, because his allegiance to Islam demands that he makes no friends of Christians and Jews. (Q.5:51)

POLITICALLY: No, because he must submit to the mullah, who teaches annihilation of Israel and the destruction of America, the great Satan.

DOMESTICALLY: No, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him. (Q.4:34)

RELIGIOUSLY: No, because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam- Intolerance. (Q.2:256)

INTELLECTUALLY: No, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is established on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

PHILOSOPHICALLY: No, because Islam, Mohammed and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist.
Every Muslim government is dictatorial except Turkey.

SPIRITUALLY: No., because when we declare "one nation under God", the Christian's God is a triune God while the Muslim's is one entity called "Allah", who is never a heavenly father, nor is he ever called "Love" in the 99 excellent names.

An article by: Anis Shorrosh, a former Muslim, turned to Christ, from Nazareth, now living in Alabama. Reprint rights granted.

And we think we can "reason" with them, here and throughout the world?