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AP: FBI Illegally Seized Ramzi Yousef Documents From OKC Reporter's Mail
Associated Press ^ | 3/13/2003 | Associated Press

Posted on 03/14/2003 7:57:18 AM PST by JohnBerger

The FBI illegally seized a package sent between two Associated Press reporters working on an investigative series about the Oklahoma City bombing. The package contained documents related to Ramzi Yousef's al Qaeda cell in Manila, according to the Associated Press.

The package contained a laboratory report on items seized from a Manila apartment where Yousef and his conspirators, including Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, plotted a September 11-style attack on America. The package was part of reporter John Solomon's investigative series on possible warnings given to the U.S. about a terrorist attack sponsored by Islamic militants just prior to the Oklahoma City bombing. The FBI told AP the package "contained sensitive information that should not be made public."

According to research published on this site and elsewhere, and extensive courtroom documentation, Terry Nichols traveled to the Cebu, the Philippines, in November 1994, on a 60-day visa that expired on Jan. 21, 1995, the exact date Yousef was planning to launch Project Bojinka, a series of attacks on U.S. bound aircraft. According to "The New Jackals" by Simon Reeve and other verified information revealed during various criminal trials, Ramzi Yousef made at least one and possibly several trips to Cebu during Nichols' visit.

One phase of Bojinka involved the simultaneous detonation of a series of bombs over the Pacific, while a second phase would have had suicide pilot(s) crash commercial aircraft into U.S. landmark(s) such as the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and CIA headquarters. The plot was foiled after an accidental fire exposed the conspiracy.

(Excerpt) Read more at mediainfo.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News
KEYWORDS: alqaedaphilippines; balkans; bojinka; okcbombing; ramziyousef; terrynichols; timothymcveigh
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To: JohnBerger
Have you read McVeigh's book - a substantial piece written by two men who were sickened at times during the writing of McVeigh's story?

Or have you pretty much blown it off, ignored it and *not* read it like most conspiracy theorists?

41 posted on 03/14/2003 9:19:55 AM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: hobbes1
There is a new book out called the ‘Watergate Amendment’ It gives a version of the pentagon papers and the 25th amendment.
It’s a interesting read.
42 posted on 03/14/2003 9:23:53 AM PST by bondsman
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To: _Jim
I have read "American Terrorist." There are numerous references to it throughout the site. It was helpful in fleshing out my working timeline.

That doesn't mean I take every word out of McVeigh's mouth as gospel truth, which would hardly be sensible.

McVeigh made conflicting claims about several specific events and times leading up to the bombing. These conflicts are of specific interest to any serious examination of the story.
43 posted on 03/14/2003 9:23:55 AM PST by JohnBerger (http://www.whoisjohndoe2.com)
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To: hobbes1
There is a new book out called the ‘Watergate Amendment’ It gives a version of the pentagon papers and the 25th amendment.
It’s a interesting read.
44 posted on 03/14/2003 9:24:14 AM PST by bondsman
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To: JohnBerger
Bump for later.
45 posted on 03/14/2003 9:24:36 AM PST by Ben Hecks
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To: JohnBerger
I misplaced my copy of The New Jackals before finishing it; could you give me a quick summary of what it said about the links?

I remember feeling that the history of the Kuwaiti who was supposedly Yousef seemed a little thin for a veteran terrorist like Yousef - he allegedly studies electronics in the UK, gets radicalized and suddenly accumulates years of accumulated explosives expertise in a few months in Afghanistan. That doesn't ring true to me. It seems more likely that he was an explosives expert of long standing, and was switched with the original Kuwaiti, as described in Laurie Myronie's book.

I think it's more likely that Yousef was originally a Baluch (note his frequent trips and relationships in that region), was recruited by Iraqi intelligence, and given advanced terrorist training in Iraq. Then he could have gone to Afghanistan (where we start picking up his trail) and participate in training there.

If that is the case, we have solid gold links between Iraqi intelligence and Al Queda, and we certainly have a justification to blow all of them to smithereens. (I think most of our war will be a theatrical enterprise, designed /not/ to blow people to smithereens, and I'm all for that, but I think you get the idea).

D
46 posted on 03/14/2003 9:27:31 AM PST by daviddennis (Visit amazing.com for protest accounts, video & more!)
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To: Teacher317
I do not believe it is any more.
47 posted on 03/14/2003 9:28:18 AM PST by mabelkitty
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To: Teacher317
what gives them the right to go through our mail?

They did't.

Addressing this specific instance - the answer lies within the piece you posted ...

48 posted on 03/14/2003 9:29:00 AM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: JohnBerger
I have read "American Terrorist."

The next tier, then, is the court documentation detailing the whereabouts, purchses, phone calls and activities of McVeigh, Nichols and Fortier.

You been through those?

(It sounds to me like you are going to 'artfully dance in the shadows' in showing any complicity of other people, groups or foreign governments in a 'theory' of your own devising re: the OKC bombing...)

49 posted on 03/14/2003 9:32:16 AM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: JohnBerger

An Essay on Hypocrisy
By Timothy McVeigh
Reprinted with permission from Media Bypass. Parthenocarpy is interested in any existing or future rebuttals of this essay.
Please contact us here to contribute.


Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc. Editor's note: Timothy McVeigh, sentenced to death for his role in the April 19, 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City, penned the following essay, dated "March 1998," from his cell in the administrative maximum section of the federal prison in Florence, Colo. In a preface, McVeigh wrote "I have chosen Media Bypass as a possible forum for this piece because, frankly, I realize that it is quite provocative -- and I rather doubt that any mainstream media would touch it. [Note that although the enclosed is very provocative, it was written to provoke thought -- and was not written with malevolent intent.]"

McVeigh appologized for the essay being handwritten, but noted his "current (unique) environment does not provide access to a typewriter, a word processor or a copier. (hell, I'm lucky they let me have a pen!), so I hope you understand why this is being submitted handwritten -- and I hope you can overcome this shortcoming."

McVeigh, whose interview with Media Bypass [February 1996] was picked up and dissected by the New York Times and major media outlets across the nation, also expressed concerns that reporting subsequent to this essay might be "printed out of context... but at least the original can be accurate."

A decorated U.S. Army veteran of the Persian Gulf War, McVeigh hereby offers his contribution to the debate over U.S. policy toward Iraq, a policy that McVeigh says is marked by a "deep hypocrisy."


The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") -- mainly because they have used them in the past.

Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided, then the U.Sl is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The U.S. claims that this was done for deterent purposes during the "Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then is it invalid for Iraq to claim the same reason (deterence) -- with respect to Iraq's (real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?

The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have you ever seen these pictures juxtaposed next to pictures from Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass destruction."

Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the big ones-- Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants -- mostly women and children -- in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours, days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes charges and trials against him and his nation, why do we not hear the same cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater amounts of "mass destruction" -- like those responsible and involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?

The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction.

Hypocrisy when it comes to death of children? In Oklahoma City, it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that.

(Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to bomb -- saying that they cannot be held responsible if children die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City bombing.)

When considering morality and mens rea [criminal intent] in light of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians?

Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of bombing Iraq.

In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing government employees because they are "guilty by association" -- they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned.

What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass destruction." If a two pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of Oklahoma."

When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake.

Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature of the act itself.

These are weapons of mass destruction -- and the method of delivery matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of the bombing of foreign tartgets by the U.S. military, you are approving of acts morally equivilent to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine.

It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act viciously condemned in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify hypocrisy.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand alone:
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely


Timothy J. McVeigh

Copyright (c) 1998, Media Bypass / Alternative Media, Inc.


50 posted on 03/14/2003 9:32:24 AM PST by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: JohnBerger
bttt
51 posted on 03/14/2003 9:37:25 AM PST by TigersEye (Let the liberals whine - it's what they do.)
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To: OKCSubmariner; cicero's_son; Nogbad; Mitchell; Travis McGee; EternalHope; Plummz; honway; ...
"When the full stories of these two incidents (1993 WTC Center bombing and 1995 Oklahoma City bombing) are finally told, those who permitted the investigations to stop short will owe big explanations to these two brave women (Middle East expert Laurie Mylroie and journalist Jayna Davis). And the nation will owe them a debt of gratitude."

R. James Woolsey (Director of the CIA, 1993-5)
The Iraq Connection
Wall Street Journal, September 5, 2002


52 posted on 03/14/2003 9:38:04 AM PST by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: JohnBerger
That doesn't mean I take every word out of McVeigh's mouth as gospel truth,

Of course, MANY MANY corroborating WITNESSES are still living - don't give the board here the impression this book was nothing but a diatribe from McVeigh!

I give readers a reference back to Post #24 where Lou Michel indicates the book was much more " the cooperation of scores of others who have figured in his [McVeigth's] life. as well as "countless hours of interviews we conducted with law-enforcement officials; relatives of McVeigh, Nichols, and Fortier; and friends and acquaintances of the suspects and bombing victims".

... more than *just* "McVeigh's mouth as the gospel" ...

I kinda get the impression you *didn't* read his 'book', but, as I say, that's *my* impression ...

53 posted on 03/14/2003 9:38:36 AM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
Well, for starters, Janet Reno is no longer running it. This was the Clintoon FBI and I'll bet Terry Denzler (sp) and the Arkansas Mafia had something to do with these papers being confiscated.
54 posted on 03/14/2003 9:41:24 AM PST by peteram (Lets Roll!!!!)
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To: The Great Satan
full stories ... (1993 WTC Center bombing and 1995 Oklahoma City bombing) ... told

Why don't you toss in EA990, TWA800, Waco, UFO's, 9/11 and Area 51 too?

You're only halfway in the pool otherwise ...

55 posted on 03/14/2003 9:42:43 AM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: Teacher317
About thirty years ago I attended a city council meeting. One of the speakers was a young woman who was with the Socialist Workers Party or something similar. She asked the council to help stop the FBI from breaking in and vandalizing their office and stealing records. We, the audience, and the council laughed her out of the room. Several years later we found out that the FBI had been breaking in, vandalizing their office and stealing records. Any one from the FBI punished? No, they were hailed as heros. I've since watched reports of their actions carefully and belive that there are no laws which the FBI believes that they have to follow.
56 posted on 03/14/2003 9:43:20 AM PST by FreePaul
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To: _Jim
The next tier, then, is the court documentation detailing the whereabouts, purchses, phone calls and activities of McVeigh, Nichols and Fortier.

Yes. If you read the Web site, you will see that everything on it is extensively sourced and based on identifiable documentation, including the above. Perhaps you should do your homework and read what I've written before asking me if I've done my homework.

There is no claim of fact on my site which isn't documented and sourceable. The only thing that is debateable on my site is whether and how those facts come together, and I clearly indicate throughout my work the speculative nature of any connection that isn't clearly proven.

(It sounds to me like you are going to 'artfully dance in the shadows' in showing any complicity of other people, groups or foreign governments in a 'theory' of your own devising re: the OKC bombing...)

Again, there is no claim on my site which is not verifiable. The only question is whether the facts listed are provably connected.

I do not claim anywhere in my series of articles (or anywhere else) to have proven a connection. I do believe that there is clearly sufficient circumstantial evidence to merit further investigation in search of concrete proof.

I am also not interested in getting into a pissing match about this. It's a waste of my time, and presumably a waste of yours as well. If you find a factual error on my site, feel free to bring it to my attention. Otherwise, trading barbs based solely on opinion and preconception frankly bores me.

-j

57 posted on 03/14/2003 9:44:08 AM PST by JohnBerger (http://www.whoisjohndoe2.com)
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To: _Jim
Mark me out for the lunch hour ...
58 posted on 03/14/2003 9:44:33 AM PST by _Jim (//NASA has a better safety record than NASCAR\\)
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To: _Jim
... more than *just* "McVeigh's mouth as the gospel" ...

I kinda get the impression you *didn't* read his 'book', but, as I say, that's *my* impression ...

Michels and Herbeck did a good job of trying to verify information but they printed plenty that they were unable to verify (and they noted when they did so). For instance, McVeigh's claim to have faced down black helicopters and New World Order goons at Area 51, just to pick one.

59 posted on 03/14/2003 9:47:20 AM PST by JohnBerger (http://www.whoisjohndoe2.com)
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To: JohnBerger

Posted on Thu, Mar. 13, 2003

AP Protests Gov't Seizure of Package

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Government agencies opened a package mailed between two Associated Press reporters last September and seized a copy of an eight-year-old unclassified FBI lab report without obtaining a warrant or notifying the news agency.

The Customs Service intercepted a package sent via Federal Express from the Associated Press bureau in Manila to the AP office in Washington, and turned the contents over to the FBI.

FBI spokesman Doug Garrison said the document contained sensitive information that should not be made public. However, an AP executive said the package contained an unclassified 1995 FBI report that had been discussed in open court in two legal cases.

"The government had no legal right to seize the package," said David Tomlin, assistant to the AP president.

The package was one of several communications between Jim Gomez in Manila and John Solomon in Washington, AP reporters who were working on terrorism investigative stories.

It was the second time that Solomon's reporting was the subject of a government seizure. In May 2001 the Justice Department subpoenaed his home phone records concerning stories he wrote about an investigation of then-Sen. Robert Torricelli.

The Customs Service said its agents opened the package from Manila after selecting it for routine inspection when it arrived at a Federal Express hub in Indianapolis. Agents did not open an identical package addressed to AP's United Nations office.

Both packages contained an FBI laboratory report on materials seized from a Filipino apartment rented by convicted terrorist Ramzi Yousef. The reporters were working on a research project that resulted in stories published last month about the government's concerns before April 19, 1995, that white supremacists might bomb a federal building.

"The job of Customs is to intercept smuggled contraband and collect import duties," said Tomlin, who is an attorney. "Customs has no authority to seize private correspondence where there's no suspicion it contains contraband. There certainly wasn't any such suspicion here."

Press freedom advocates criticized the agencies' seizure of the document.

"It was really stupid of them to keep it," said Lucy Dalglish, director of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. "What they're trying to do is prevent you from reporting a story. That's censorship."

The AP inquired about the missing FedEx package last autumn when it did not arrive in Washington, and the courier suggested it might have fallen off a delivery van. FedEx later reimbursed AP $100 for the loss.

FedEx spokeswoman Sally Davenport said Wednesday the company was unable to track the package after it arrived in Indianapolis and had no records showing that it was seized by Customs. If the company knows a package has been taken by Customs, FedEx policy is to notify the customer and provide a number to contact the agency, Davenport said. FedEx did send a letter of apology to the AP, she said.

In January the AP was tipped that the package had been intercepted and that the FBI had requested an investigation to find out who had provided the lab report to the news service.

A letter from the Philippine Department of Justice to the Philippine National Police about the document read, in part: "In view of the concerns raised by the FBI regarding this matter, may we request your good office to conduct a thorough investigation on the mishandling of such sensitive information?"

Customs has the legal right to examine packages sent from overseas at the point they arrive in the United States, in this case Indianapolis. The Customs Service (now the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection) said in a statement that the package addressed to Solomon was selected for "routine inspection" on Sept. 19. Because it contained an FBI document, Customs called the FBI. Spokesman Dean Boyd said Customs routinely asks another agency about contents of an examined package that pertain to that agency.

"An FBI agent subsequently examined the file and requested that it be turned over to the FBI," the Customs statement said. "Based upon these representations by the FBI, Customs turned the file over."

No warrant was issued, Customs and FBI both said. Customs said any notification to the AP was the FBI's responsibility.

Garrison, who works out of the FBI's Indianapolis bureau, said the package was sent to the FBI in Washington after an FBI agent in Indianapolis reviewed the document and said it contained some information that should not be made public.

"From the FBI's perspective, if the document was a laboratory report that contained sensitive information that the laboratory thought ought to be controlled, they had an obligation to control it," Garrison said. "Generally speaking, we're more careful about the kind of information that's out there. We don't want criminals to get ideas as to how to cause more damage."

The AP said the information had been previously publicly disclosed in two court venues. The material included copies and photos of dozens of pieces of evidence gathered in the terrorism cases of Abdul Hakim Murad and Ramzi Yousef, including batteries, explosive devices, bomb fragments, a copy of a Time magazine, cell phones and phone books.

Murad and Yousef were sentenced to life in prison in a plot to blow up 12 U.S.-bound airliners flying out of Asia. Yousef was later convicted of masterminding the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

The earlier incident involving Solomon's home phone records sparked a media outcry after Justice officials subpoenaed Solomon's phone records while trying to learn the identity of law enforcement officials who told the AP about a wiretap intercept of then-Sen. Torricelli of New Jersey.

Solomon found out about the May 2001 subpoena in August when he returned from vacation and opened a notification letter from the government. The Code of Federal Regulations says the AP should have had the opportunity to challenge the subpoena.

60 posted on 03/14/2003 9:47:58 AM PST by kcvl
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