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Help Me Debate my Liberal Son-in-Law (Vanity)
self | 3-5-03 | WVNan

Posted on 03/05/2003 8:51:57 PM PST by WVNan

Below is a reply I received from my son-in-law after I sent him an e-mail that I felt justified the war with Iraq. I have written a reply but haven't mailed it yet. I would like some additional ammunition from Freepers. I'm sending him the article about the liberal woman in the British Parliament who is supporting Blair. She's been to Iraq and knows what is going on.

My points are: I was also afraid of kamakazi pilots in 1941 who would fly their planes into ships and perhaps into my home, but isn't it amazing how civilized they became under democracy. I didn't hear any angst over the bombing of Bagdad by clinton, or the bombing of Yugoslavia for no reason connected to our national interest. Evil exists and pretending it will go away will not make it so. Head in the sand and not rocking the boat for years has left the world in a god-awful mess and somebody has to take out the trash before it buries us all.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: debate; iraq; liberal; war
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Here is the e-mail I have to answer.

All that may be.

All I know is that Germans aren't Arabs. Eurpoeans aren't Muslims. And 2003 isn't 1941. Germans don't/didn't strap bombs to their backs and blow themselves up in the name of God. Hitler was fighting a geo-political war. Arabs are fighting a holy war. Hitler never proclaimed to have God on his side. Arabs are convinced that God is on their side. And I've always said, be afraid of the man who *says* he has God on his side.

I'm concerned but not necessarily afraid of Hussein's anthrax and weapons of mass destruction. I don't even think Hussein is stupid enough to launch a pre-emptive strike against the US. For if he did, we would be completely and totally justified in taking out the entire country of Iraq. And the whole, wide world, even the Arabs, would understand and be supportive. Remember, we had the Arab world behind us when we defended Hussein's invasion of Kuwait.

That was a justified war. And there was no disputing that it was justified. Likewise, WWII was justified for the same reason. Had we invaded Germany first, everything would have been different. We must be careful to remember that hindsight is always 20/20.

Could Hussein attack us if we don't take out his weapons of mass destruction? Yes. Would he attack us? Maybe. But you have to accept that there's at least the possiblity that he wouldn't.

We have every right to defend ourselves. I'm no dummy. But spin it any way you like, taking the offensive is not being defensive. It's a plain contradiction. And in matters of war, it makes all the difference.

I'm concerned about Hussein as every right thinking human being ought to be. But what I'm *afraid* of are psychotic Arabs, enraged at the Great Satan's pre-emptive invasion of sacred Arab territory who might feel it is their holy duty to board an airplane with a plane ticket and a carpet knife.

What I'm afraid of os the deluded Muslim who might jump on a subway car with a gallon of gas and light it on fire.

Am I right in being afraid of this? I don't know. I guess we could ask the Israelis and see what they think ...

I just don't see how invading Iran is going to reduce my fear of these things at all

1 posted on 03/05/2003 8:51:57 PM PST by WVNan
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To: WVNan
Bump out
2 posted on 03/05/2003 8:58:51 PM PST by WVNan
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To: WVNan
Help Me Debate my Liberal Son-in-Law (Vanity)

Call him a Meathead...

3 posted on 03/05/2003 8:59:55 PM PST by ambrose
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To: WVNan
Help Me Debate my Liberal Son-in-Law (Vanity)

Spend about three days watching old episodes of "All in the Family" -- Archie Bunker had the whole thing down to an art form.

4 posted on 03/05/2003 9:00:04 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: ambrose
LOL.
5 posted on 03/05/2003 9:00:17 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: WVNan
1. The Arab street hate Saddam

2.The South had God on their side.

3. Churchill's famous words " too Late" : as he warned an unpopular view that the League of Nations were not enforcing the inspections regime in Germany. Churchill later wrote of the unneccessary war , WW2, ask how many died because inspections didn't work ? " If one forgets history he surly will relive it.

No President can allow a Person who gives up billions in oil revenues to keep his weapons of mass destruction to use it somewhere, sometime after 9-11

6 posted on 03/05/2003 9:01:41 PM PST by scooby321
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To: WVNan
Simplest answer in the world.

*Fear* is what creates the Taliban. *Fear* is what allowed Hitler to imprison and kill the Jews. If you are *afraid* of what might happen as a result of decisive decisions in the face of moral ambiguity, then you are sentenced to a life of hiding from shadows.

>> Would he attack us? Maybe. But you have to accept that there's at least the possiblity that he wouldn't. <<

But if you accept the H0 hypothesis he might not hurt us and take no action, then both H1 (he will supply our enemies with WMD) and H0 are in play. This is not a simple matter. Saddam has demonstrated his willlingness to use WMD and, if he gets the nuclear option, he will become the next North Korea. This is a simple computation of predilection+means.

The "I am *afraid*" line leads to A 9/11 scenario with Nukes instead of jetliners.

THAT is much more to be feared than cowardly homicide bombers. Appeasement emboldens the adversary. 9/11 can be laid in Clinton's lap.

We need to remove the world of the scourge of Islam. We did it with Naziism, Fascism and Communism. The only hope to remove *fear* for your children and childeren's children is to join conservatives to make the world safe against Muslims. We grew up with the fear of the "Big One." Now that does not exist.

We can do it again.

Together.

7 posted on 03/05/2003 9:03:24 PM PST by freedumb2003
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To: WVNan
Tell him that we are not just defending ourselves, We are defending freedom. Remind him that we have shed blood for total starngers, so that they can enjoy the freedoms we hold dear. Iraq is led by a brutal dictator who invaded his neighbors and we were called to defend freedom once again in 1991. Saddam was driven out of Kuwait and that country was liberated because of the blood sweat and tears of the brave men and women of our armed services.

We lost several hundred of our soldiers fighting Saddam's forces and Saddam signed a cease fire agreement in order to remain in power, he has since violated every single one of those agreements he signed and if for no other reason, we owe it to those who gave their lives in the Gulf War to remove this mad man for this reason alone

God Bless America,

MJY

8 posted on 03/05/2003 9:04:25 PM PST by MJY1288 (It's Time To Roll)
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To: WVNan
2 major reasons to take him out.
  1. If, after 17 resolutions, we let him walk away, no despot anywhere will ever take us seriously again. The UN they have already figured out. They will simply play the waiting game, or blackmail us when they get nukes.
  2. He will probably not attack us directly, but he sure as heck will sell/give some WOMD to some group who will, or use his oil $ to finance same. If we keep backing away, those who would terrorize us would simply be emboldened.

Naysayers everywhere were predicting hell to pay before we went into Afghanistan. What happened?

9 posted on 03/05/2003 9:05:53 PM PST by Andyman
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To: WVNan
I don't even think Hussein is stupid enough to launch a pre-emptive strike against the US.

It's to Saddam's longterm advantage (along with the North Koreans, ChiComs, etc.) to weaken America and one way to do it is for Saddam to give biological weapons to terrorists to spread throughout America.

Done right, it could be catastrophic and leave few, if any, fingerprints as to who did it. Whom then would we retaliate against?

Hopefully, Saddam's days are numbered and he hasn't already planted such weapons in this country.

The idea of leaving this guy alive is insane.

Just how many people does Saddam have to kill before your son-in-law thinks Saddam should be liquidated?

10 posted on 03/05/2003 9:06:23 PM PST by jigsaw
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To: Alberta's Child
LOL. I know. I can relate to Archie big time.
11 posted on 03/05/2003 9:07:49 PM PST by WVNan
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To: WVNan
What I'm afraid of is the deluded Muslim who might jump on a subway car with a gallon of gas and light it on fire.

What makes your son in law think that this wouldn't happen even if we didn't go to war? Ask him: Were we at war with anyone on February 26, 1993 (bombing of WTC)? Were we at war with anyone on June 25, 1996 (Khobar Towers bombing)? Were we at war with anyone on August 7, 1998 (Kenya &Tanzania Embassy bombings)? Were we at war with anyone on October 12, 2000 (U.S.S. Cole bombing)? Were we at war with anyone on 9/11?

12 posted on 03/05/2003 9:08:10 PM PST by mass55th
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To: WVNan
Sell him to Barbra Streisand.
13 posted on 03/05/2003 9:09:02 PM PST by Consort
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To: WVNan
"And I've always said, be afraid of the man who *says* he has God on his side."

Well that's just ignorance. Gen. George S Patton felt he had God on his side as did many other Americans leaders throughout history.

"Maybe. But you have to accept that there's at least the possiblity that he wouldn't."

Conversely he has to accept that there is a possibility he will give NBC weapons to terorrists that will use them against the US. Better safe than sorry right? Or would he prefer more dead Americans before action is taken (not to mention dead Iraqis).

"Am I right in being afraid of this? I don't know."

There's a war on. A war on terror. WHat are we to do? Cower in the corner and hope the terrorists will just decide to play nice? Doesn't seem to smart to me. We can't let possible future actions of the enemy deter us from the mission - defeat Islamic terrorism or any terrorism for that matter. Iraq is not a "sacred Arab territory". In addition, there are Arrab countries that support the removal of Saddam Hussein.

But hey I could be wrong. FReegards.
14 posted on 03/05/2003 9:09:21 PM PST by Texas_Jarhead
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To: WVNan
shouldnt be too difficult
his facts are wrong
the conclusions drawn from those facts are wrong
and his solutions are wrong
15 posted on 03/05/2003 9:09:40 PM PST by joesnuffy
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To: WVNan
You stated it was justified to go to war against Hitler, even though Hitler never attacked us. (He declared war on us after we declared war on his axis ally Japan).

But when Hitler violated the terms of the Versailles Treaty that ended WWI, and rearmed Germany, should England and France and the U.S. have called him on it? When he marched his troops into the demilitarized Rhineland, which was forbidden by the League of Nations and the Versailles Treaty, should we all have called him on that? When Hitler annexed Austria, should we have called him on that? When Hitler invaded and took over Czechoslavakia, should the Prime Minister of England, Neville Chamberlain, have negotiated a peace treaty with him solely on his promise that he wouldn't invade any more countries, and declared, waving the paper, that he had achieved "Peace in our time."?

WWII cost at least 50 million lives, 20 million in Russia alone.

If England and the French and the U.S. had stood up to Hitler when he first violated the Treaty of Versailles, when his war machine was not so powerful, do you think the body count would have been as high?

Do you believe that if we back down from Saddam this time that he will be a good boy? Or do you think he will become more powerful, and more dangerous, and cost many more lives than are going to be lost by fighting this war now?

And do you think that if France and Germany and Russia had seen their way to supporting the "tough love" stance, that there would have been a better chance of Saddam choosing exile, with the whole world arrayed united and determined around him?

Has the peace movement actually blown the only chance -- a slim, but real, chance -- for a peaceful solution, by giving aid and comfort to Saddam?

And why can't we wait longer for inspections? They don't work and with every passing day, summer is coming and the casualty rates for our soldiers mount.

16 posted on 03/05/2003 9:10:27 PM PST by patriciaruth
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To: freedumb2003
What answer do you have for his assertion that "offence is not defensive?"
17 posted on 03/05/2003 9:12:04 PM PST by WVNan
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To: WVNan
It's not about oil...It's about our ALLIES...namely Israel.
18 posted on 03/05/2003 9:12:47 PM PST by demsux
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To: scooby321
Good point about the oil revenues. Thanks
19 posted on 03/05/2003 9:13:45 PM PST by WVNan
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To: MJY1288
Thanks.
20 posted on 03/05/2003 9:14:47 PM PST by WVNan
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