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Fears that US will use 'torture lite' on al-Qaida No 3
The Guardian (U.K.) ^ | 03/05/03 | Duncan Campbell

Posted on 03/04/2003 7:29:58 PM PST by Pokey78

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the al-Qaida leader captured in Pakistan over the weekend, was yesterday believed to be under interrogation at a US base in Afghanistan.

The White House denied he was being tortured, although there is speculation that a variety of techniques known in the intelligence community as "torture lite" would be used to get information from him.

Mohammed, who is said to to be the number three in al-Qaida, was arrested on Saturday in Pakistan, in a joint operation by the CIA and Pakistani police. He was initially interrogated in Pakistan but has now been moved.

The US does not comment on individual prisoners held in the wake of September 11, but Pakistani officials said they understood that he was now being held in Afghanistan, reportedly at the Bagram base.

The arrest follows last month's capture in Pakistan of Muhammed Abdel Rahman, a son of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, who was convicted in 1995 of conspiring to blow up the UN offices in New York.

Information provided by Mr Rahman led to the latest arrest, according to a report in the New York Times.

There was also speculation that Ramzi bin al-Shibh, who was arrested in Pakistan last year, had given information about Mohammed under interrogation. The two had been in hiding together in Karachi.

Qari Abdul Wali, a Taliban military commander in hiding near the Afghan town of Spin Boldak, told Reuters that al-Qaida would remain intact despite the arrest.

"The arrest of a few individuals from within al-Qaida's ranks will have no bearing on the organisation's functioning," Mr Wali said. "Representatives of al-Qaida and the Taliban keep their communications going, but that doesn't mean we are likely to snitch on each other."

Interrogators are likely to seek two key pieces of information from Mohammed: plans for attacks on the US or US interests, and the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden.

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said in response to questions about the detention of Mohammed: "The standard for any type of interrogation of somebody in American custody is to be humane and to follow all international laws and accords dealing with this type subject. That is precisely what has been happening and exactly what will happen."

But lawyers for those detained after September 11 believe prisoners held abroad are often subjected to torture.

Randy Hamud, who represents a number of Arabs detained in San Diego, said he believed his clients had been taken to countries where they could be tortured. There have also been reports that police in countries such as Pakistan and Jordan are given prisoners by the US in the knowledge that they will be tortured.

A former member of US navy intelligence said that "torture lite" - sleep deprivation, and placing prisoners in awkward or painful positions for hours at a time - would be used.

The Democratic senator John Rockefeller suggested at the weekend that the US might consider turning over Mohammed to a country that does not ban torture. He told CNN: "I wouldn't take anything off the table where he is concerned, because this is the man who has killed hundreds and hundreds of Americans over the last 10 years."

He had since said that he was not condoning torture.

The secretary of homeland security, Tom Ridge, said Mohammed would have significant information but would be hard to interrogate.

"We know that these individuals are trained and programmed in the craft of evasion. It will be very, very difficult to extricate information from this guy at this time."

There was also speculation that Mohammed would be questioned about the murder last year of the Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
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To: Pokey78
Just who is afraid that the thumbscrews are being used on KSM? What is there to fear? If anyone deserves it, it will be him.He will be interrogated, tried by military tribunal, then hanged.
21 posted on 03/04/2003 7:59:02 PM PST by habs4ever
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To: Viva Le Dissention
Better get that flame-retardant suit out. Not much sympathy for Al-Qaeda -- not alleged Al-Qaeda, but obvious Al-Qaeda -- in these parts. There are lots of lives hanging in the balance with this guy.
22 posted on 03/04/2003 7:59:13 PM PST by speedy
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To: guitfiddlist
Sounds like you and the Rock would make a great team, talking about exporting our criminals in order to extract a confession through torture.

Hey, that's great. That's our Constitution hard at work. Keep it up.

So, I guess if you're ever arrested because you fit the description of a murderer, you don't have a problem with the police using torture to extract a confession? You've got no problem with that?
23 posted on 03/04/2003 7:59:34 PM PST by Viva Le Dissention
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To: speedy
Yeah, I despise the guy myself, but the more despicable the crime, the more important it is that we ensure the procedural safeguards are operating correctly.
24 posted on 03/04/2003 8:01:47 PM PST by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Viva Le Dissention
Well, you see, in America, we have this thing called a criminal justice system, and in this criminal justice system, we have a lot of standards, like that people are innocent until proven guilty, they have due process rights, etc.

That's fascinating. What's it got to do with war?

Now, I know out current president likes to ignore a lot of these really inconvenient things when he wants to execute some people,

What a lie. Who's he "executed"? 1. You can't mention Texas because death row inmates in Texas were, technically, executed by juries down there. 2. You can't mention people killed overseas in war. (It's a war.)

but there are some of us that would really rather prefer that we were ever to get arrested, we wouldn't be tortured (even tortured "lite"--sleep deprivation is a very powerful tool) in order to extract a confession-

1. This guy isn't being "arrested" (except perhaps by Pakistani police for violating some Pakistan law). He's a wartime enemy. 2. The "torture lite", if that's what's being done, is not to extract a "confession", but to obtain information which could help future attacks.

I presume you are in favor of preventing future attacks.

A confession under torture is VERY effective for something like that. We might as well just go ahead bring back the Star Chamber for our "war" on terrorism. I think that would make a lot of you folks happy.

This may be partially due to the fact that you don't really understand what is going on here. We are at war. There are no quotation marks. And we don't care about this guy's "confession". We are at war and he is an enemy.

25 posted on 03/04/2003 8:02:21 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Viva Le Dissention
First of all, your bleeding heart is staining all the rugs in the room. Second, please explain how the US Constitution applies to a Kuwaiti captured and held by Pakistani forces? Eh?

That dispenses with your other irrelevant points.

26 posted on 03/04/2003 8:02:38 PM PST by guitfiddlist
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To: Pokey78
Instruments of Torture: Medieval to Modern

Time to bring back "the rack"?!

27 posted on 03/04/2003 8:02:41 PM PST by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: Utah Girl
I'd have a never-ending fountain of liquified pork raining gently all over him, 24-7.
28 posted on 03/04/2003 8:03:01 PM PST by Objective Reality
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To: guitfiddlist
ROTFLMAO! Good one.

BTW, notice this?

"The arrest of a few individuals from within al-Qaida's ranks will have no bearing on the organisation's functioning," Mr Wali said. "Representatives of al-Qaida and the Taliban keep their communications going, but that doesn't mean we are likely to snitch on each other."

Dream on Mr. Wali. Just keep reciting it until you believe it. Whatever helps you get by, buddy.

29 posted on 03/04/2003 8:03:52 PM PST by Tennessean4Bush
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To: Viva Le Dissention
KSM is an enemy combatant and thus not eligible to the niceities of a system that dealt with John Wayne Gacy.He will be tried by a military tribunal and I can sorta bet that the evidence will prove him guilty and he will be hanged.So much for a Star Chamber.

The Romanians sure got over their qualms about swift and summary justice for Nikki Ceau and his lovely bride.No muss, no fuss, and no second thoughts.

You, though, should eat more prunes.
30 posted on 03/04/2003 8:04:31 PM PST by habs4ever
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To: Viva Le Dissention
So, I guess if you're ever arrested because you fit the description of a murderer, you don't have a problem with the police using torture to extract a confession? You've got no problem with that?

"Arrested"? "Police"?

You still don't seem to get it. We are at war. How can you be unaware of this?

31 posted on 03/04/2003 8:04:50 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Dacus943
I was hoping Torture lite involved a police issue Mag Lite
32 posted on 03/04/2003 8:05:15 PM PST by Maximum Leader (run from a knife, close on a gun)
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To: Pokey78
Use Streisand recordings on him. He'll tell all before going totally mad!
33 posted on 03/04/2003 8:05:41 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Objective Reality
O'reilly is for torturing the dude not based on what they did on 911 but to prevent another 911.
I think Hannity is against torture
I dont really know where I stand on the issue. I dont think I want us to stoop to the level of Hitler or the Vietnamese in terms of torture but then I don't want another 911.
34 posted on 03/04/2003 8:06:09 PM PST by RummyChick
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To: Viva Le Dissention
Our 'current' president? Youre joking, aren't you.. please Dear God say youre joking?

You meant to say that the rat bastard Former President Clinton broke every rule there was for personal gain, didn't you? You meant to say that Clinton raped, stole, lied, theived and subjegated, didn't you?

Please, dear Lord, don't let there be people so stupid as to really authentically believe this....
35 posted on 03/04/2003 8:07:38 PM PST by LaraCroft ('Bout time)
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To: Utah Girl
Qari Abdul Wali, a Taliban military commander in hiding near the Afghan town of Spin Boldak, told Reuters that al-Qaida would remain intact despite the arrest.

Big talk from a guy in hiding!!

36 posted on 03/04/2003 8:08:16 PM PST by marvlus
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To: Viva Le Dissention
we are in a war not a criminal proceeding. when the nukes go off will you post the same bullshit ??
37 posted on 03/04/2003 8:08:39 PM PST by glf
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To: Dr. Frank
It's a war, huh? Funny, I must have slept through that day when Congress declared war.

Oh, but it's LIKE a war, right? So is the "war on drugs" like a war enough that we can disregard the Constitutional safeguards against wrongful imprisonment? The Bill of Rights carefully deals with rights during "times of War." I don't see a reason they should be disregarded now.
38 posted on 03/04/2003 8:09:03 PM PST by Viva Le Dissention
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To: Utah Girl
Gasp, OH NO, they aren't going to let him have crumpets with his tea...how absolutely primitive!
39 posted on 03/04/2003 8:09:29 PM PST by Chu Gary
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To: Pokey78
What ever happen to him, he deserves it. As for the pasifists, WHO cares! Cry me a river.
40 posted on 03/04/2003 8:10:08 PM PST by US_MilitaryRules (A penny saved is a governmental oversite!!!)
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