Iowa Lawmaker Wants To Stop Private Gun Sales

The Iowa Channel ^ | 2/28/2003 | Unknown

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

DES MOINES, Iowa -- Some Iowa legislators want to change the laws surrounding private gun sales, but some people say the bill threatens the Second Amendment and does nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

Jack Smith has had a federal firearms license for 20 years and a store on Des Moines' east side for the past four years.

"Do you have a permit to purchase a handgun, and a drivers' license with a picture on it?" Smith said.

Smith has strong opinions on just about everything and that includes any new proposed firearms legislation.

"The folks who've written this bill, I'm sure have the best of intentions...I agree with some of it, disagree with others," Smith said.

"There's a problem in our state law and we're trying to solve it," Sen. Jack Hatch said.

Hatch, of Des Moines, is one of the sponsors of Senate file 163. He purchased a weapon at a local gun show, just to make a point.

"It was disconcerting to see how easy it was to buy this. It's outrageous that I can sell this," Hatch said.

It's legal under current Iowa law and that's what Hatch wants to change. His bill would require that a private sale between two people be conducted through a licensed gun dealer.

Lawmakers backing the bill said they are not trying to take away Iowans second amendment rights, but they do think some changes are necessary.

"I do not believe that every transfer needs to be monitored by the government," Smith said.

But Smith does think gun shows and some gun dealers should be more closely monitored. He said he runs a tight shop, but knows it's not like this everywhere.

"You could take any parking lot in this city, fill your trunk with guns, and legally sell them, no questions asked. I do have a problem with that," Smith said.

The Senate file is currently in committee. Supporters have two weeks to get it out of committee, to be considered during this year's legislative session.

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

"It was disconcerting to see how easy it was to buy this. It's outrageous that I can sell this," Hatch said.

It's outrageous that you have made an oath to protect and defend the Constitution Mister Hatch. Do you spit on the oath you have made everyday?

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

Bang!

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

Some Iowa legislators want to change the laws surrounding private gun sales, but some people say the bill threatens the Second Amendment and does nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

It will do nothing to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Ever heard of a straw purchase? It is done all the time.

[niteowl77]

A dealer who doesn't like private purchases? Why, how shocking! Still, there is no way he'd let the concept of personal gain cloud his zeal for individual freedoms or Constitutional rights...

...is there?

As for Jask Ass - I mean, Hatch - he was eleced by a part of Iowa that doesn't particularly like guns, so he will probably get a lot of kudos for this. After all the theatrics, I do hope he destroys or "legally disposes" of that gun he just bought, because he strikes me as the kind of man that doesn't really understand the concept of responsibility. I'm not suggesting he sell it from his trunk on the near North Side, but maybe Mr. Smith would like to broker some sort of deal-- for a reasonable fee, of course.

One question for both gentlemen: how many "trunkloads" of firearms - nice imagery - can someone legally sell in a given space of time before he is required to have an FFL? I know the answer, and I suspect they do too, but I don't see it mentioned... one can only speculate as to why.

[wcbtinman]

This serves two purposes for the govt bastards.

It is backdoor registration (via the 4473 form required to be filled out for any dealer transaction), and it raises revenue.

I say kill the bastards.(sarcasm)

[ninenot]

Well, they can enact the law.

It's another thing entirely to actually enforce it.

If you and I decide that you want to buy my H&K and we meet in the parking lot of the shopping center to make the exchange (without waving the H&K around like a flag,) just exactly who is going to prevent the sale?

Who's even going to ask any questions?

Who's going to SEE the sale?

Granted, the gun dealer wants to maximize his revenues. But guys like him are EXACTLY like States such as Wisconsin and New York regarding tobacco taxes. The Internet (and cars) provide a good deal of flexibility in making purchases.

[Sloth]

Nobody should ever buy a gun from Jack Smith again.

[Dan from Michigan]

"You could take any parking lot in this city, fill your trunk with guns, and legally sell them, no questions asked. I do have a problem with that," Smith said

That's called a straw purchase. Translation - Make the buyers come to Smith...mo money.

As for that tosser Hatch, remember him election time.

[Centurion2000]

One question for both gentlemen: how many "trunkloads" of firearms - nice imagery - can someone legally sell in a given space of time before he is required to have an FFL? I know the answer, and I suspect they do too, but I don't see it mentioned... one can only speculate as to why.

So what is the answer for that question ?

[Protagoras]

"You could take any parking lot in this city, fill your trunk with guns, and legally sell them, no questions asked. I do have a problem with that," Smith said.

Competition is a bitch.

[newgeezer]

Minnesota -- the state that gave us the likes of Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale and Paul Wellstone -- is considering and just might pass a shall-issue CCW bill.

Iowa -- which, in the meantime, had 30 consecutive years of Republican governors -- just reelected a liberal DemoCRAP governor for the first time in who-knows-how-long, and seems to have a chance of passing this idiotic, blatantly unconstitutional bill through its Republican-controlled (for now) House and Senate.

Beam me up, Scotty. Everything's going crazy here. The end is near (I hope).

[FreeTally]

That's called a straw purchase.

Not neccesarily.

If I went to a licensed dealer, bought say, 10 guns, which I had pre-aranged to sell to specific indivuals, and met them and sold them, then that would be a straw purchase.

OTOH, if I loaded up ten old guns from my house I didn't want anymore, and sold them in a parking lot(or gun show), nothing illegal has transpired.

They are trying to stop the latter example, i.e., gun sales that have no traceable paperwork.

[biblewonk]

It's not the guns they hate, it's conservatives. This is just one of many ways to "get them" so they use it to the hilt.

They care nothing about how easy it is for 2 18 year olds to get a license to drive a car and then go buy and sell them. The 41,500 deaths on the highway don't register to them at all, but let one person die by a gunshot no matter how innocent or accidental, or let one insane criminal use a gun to kill someone and they will milk that dry in an effort to hurt those that they simply don't like.

John came neither eating or drinking and they said he has a demon, the son of Man came eating and drinking and they said look a glutton and a wine biber, but wisdom is known by her fruit.

[Indrid Cold]

According to the book "Unintended Consequences", it can be as few as one gun. If you buy a gun at a gun show, an undercover ATF agent may come up and offer you waaaay too much money for it. If you sell it, you go to the pokey, as now you're not "adding to your collection", or "selling from your collection", but engaging in gun-dealing without a license. Or that's ATF's take, anyway.

[Indrid Cold]

In Smith's defense, I suspect his statements have been taken somewhat out of context. I'm sure he has no problem with private parties selling to each other, but the premise brought up on this thread is that he'd want to get the transfer fees from transferring a firearm from one private party to another. These transfer fees are set by the dealer and are generally quite low ($10-$20), and are just meant to offset the hassle of having to log the gun in, log it out, call for the background check, etc. If someone told me that my gun shop could make 20 more transfers a week if I just supported this law, I'd tell them to go pound sand--the paperwork hassle wouldn't be worth it (and, indeed, many dealers refuse to do them at all). Just my $.02.

[TexasRepublic]

When our Republic is in the final throes of death, those government apparatchiks will still be shuffling the deckchairs of the Titanic, trying to outlaw guns. Don't they have anything better to do? Damn them all.

[mvpel]

The fees may start out quite low, but that won't stop the legislature from tacking on whatever they want to them in the future - you now have to pay 50c for a glossy guide to the new Handgun Safety Certificate in California, and a private-party transfer that I did yesterday cost me $35 after all the "dollar here, two dollars there" charges were tacked on.

[hoosierham]

This is a greedy dealer and a elected enemy of freedom conspiring to rob the people ; don't we have laws against such behavior ?

[Lucky Lyn]

Here in Michigan you can't buy a handgun from another
individual without a 'permit to purchase' from the
authorites, why do liberals choose to ignore that fact?!

[supercat]

These transfer fees are set by the dealer and are generally quite low ($10-$20)

In Illinois, transfer fees are often $75 or so; I don't think I've ever seen one under $50.