Pledge Ban upheld ("no under God")

Fox News.com ^ | February 28, 2002 | FOX

[Iron Eagle]

SAN FRANCISCO

[aristeides]

Your arguments lead inexorably to the conclusion that government schools are unconstitutional, a conclusion with which I happen to agree.

[jimt]

Parents who do not believe in God can simply instruct their kids not to use those words. Parents who do not believe in America can simply inform their children to remain silent.

And after the Satanists become the majority, clearly you won't object to the pledge being revised to "one nation, under Satan,..." and will instruct your child as discussed above?

Somehow I don't think so.

[aristeides]

At the time of the original ruling, it was not clear that Dr. Newdow, the plaintiff, was not the custodial parent, and that the custodial parent as well as the child did not want the suit brought. It would have been very easy for the court en banc to reverse on that narrow ground.

[aristeides]

The "wall of separation" was started by Mr. Black due to his anti-Catholic views.

Justice Hugo Black was a member of the Ku Klux Klan, whose anti-Catholicism was notorious.

[Vic3O3]

Kalifornia...it's like a whole other Planet!

Did you see the Court also refused the mother's request to remove the daughter from the case?

[eabinga]

Technically, the word, 'creator,' if capitalized (as it is spelled in the DofI) is defined as, "God, the Supreme Being." (Websters, 20th Century Dictionary, unabridged).

Unfortunately you didn't look into Websters 18th Century Dictionary.

As you will note, lots of Nouns are capitalized in the DOI.

Could you enlighten us about the difference between laws and Laws, or happiness and Happiness??

[qam1]

The in god we trust on our money, The song God Bless America, A christmas tree in a firehouse, even the 10 commandments in various courthouses around the country are one thing. They are mostly just historic symbolism. Those things no more endorse religion than owning a product with a "Union made" label on means you endorse unions.

However giving your word in taking a Pledge of Allegiance to your country is something totally different. By adding the words under god you are forcing people who know there is no god to basically lie and take a meaningless pledge. And don't give me that you don't have to say those words BS, Why shouldn't people who know there is no god not be able to Pledge Allegiance to their country which supposedly has freedom of or from religion. What are atheist, Hindus, etc., not somehow real Americans?? Let me guess Freedom of Religion but only if it's one of the acceptable christian religions.

The other argument given is since some of our governmental traditions are christian based so the words "Under god" should be included but argument falls flat because just as many if not more are based on Roman, Greek and Norse tradition. So by that logic Zeus, Jupiter and Odin should be mentioned in any pledge.

The quickest way for conservatives to lose power is to push to replace the tyrannical "Big government" with the tyrannical "Big Religion"

[aristeides]

Least-common-denominator theism a la the words in the Pledge is not tyrannical "Big Religion."

To the extent that those words in the Pledge represent a violation of constitutional rights, a secularized schoolplace is at least an equal violation. The choice is either to ignore trivial violations of constitutional principle, or to get rid of government schools, which inevitably must violate somebody's rights.

[cavtrooper21]

Ninth Circus covers more than just SSR Kalifornia! Which I'm sure pleases the heck out of the other states forced to put up the 9th's blatant disregard for the Constitution, common sense, and justice (oh, forgot - THE TRUTH ! )

[nicmarlo]

thanks for your post and references to case law.

[aristeides]

Recent Congresses have been giving more and more serious consideration to the idea of splitting the Ninth Circuit in two.

[jwalsh07]

Somehow I don't think so

I take it you've given up the debate.

[Iconoclast2]

My favorite parts of Judge O'Scannlain's dissent:

"My disagreement with the panel majority has nothing to do with bending to the will of an outraged populace, and everything to do with the fact that Judge Goodwin and Judge Reinhardt misinterpret the Constitution and 40 years of
Supreme Court precedent. That most people understand this makes the decision no less wrong. It doesn’t take an Article III judge to recognize that the voluntary recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in public school does not violate the First Amendment."

"If reciting the Pledge is truly “a religious act” in violation of the Establishment Clause, then so is the recitation of the Constitution itself, the Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address, the National Motto, or the singing of the National Anthem. Such an assertion would make hypocrites out of the Founders, and would have the effect of driving any and all references to our religious heritage out of our schools, and eventually out of our public life."

And isn't that, of course, the goal of the Niners?

[Iconoclast2]

Read the opinion. The Pledge is voluntary. It has been settled law for decades that no one has to say it.

[AuntB]

It's way past time to break up this court, into tiny little pieces! I've got the judicial review forms that any one can file a complaint against them on. Just email me!

This court has destroyed rural property rights in the west. They have no regard for "we the people".

[mrfixit514]

They can ban it all they want. My high school where I teach repeats the pledge everday. And we emphasize "Under God".

[wcbtinman]

"Keeping religion and government separate..."

That is the whole foundation for your argument, and it's wrong.

The first amendment does not provide for any such "separation" of religion and govt. The amendment clearly states that "Congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion. the word "an" presupposes existing religious 'establishment(s)' In addition, if you read the Federalist Papers and other documents related to the Founders, you can see plainly that it was never the intention to separate govt and religion, it was only to provide that "Congress shall make no law..." regarding religious activities, and that our govt was never to recognize or form a state run religion as was prevalent in England at that time.

"Separation" of church and "state" is a mythical interpretation of the plain English of the Constitution, foisted on the citizens by Godless, socilalist liars

[maxwellp]

"...folks will still shout it out on their own." We live in a small Upstate New York village (Pop. 548) and when the "under God" issue was first presented by the Ninth Circus we happened to have a meeting about a permanent Post Office. We took great pride in our American neighbors, when before the meeting started, we said the Pledge and when it came to "under God" we all screamed those two words, including the Post Office officials. This Ninth Circus court - what to do about them? Libs, hear me loud and clear - you will never stop me from saying "One nation, under God". NEVER. America needs Estrada badly!

[concerned about politics]

Support school choice canidates. Shut down the anti-American socialist indoctrination centers for good.

[homeschool mama]

**Actually, she did home school when they were younger, but she is uneasy about it now that they are getting into higher grades. **

As info, HSLDA has current stats on home educating junior and senior high kiddos. www.hslda.org

I applaud your daughter for removing her children from the government indoctrination program and placing them in a private school. The difference will be quite noticeable. :o)