Posted on 02/21/2003 1:28:13 AM PST by Swordmaker
LOL
Nothin' gets by you all.
An article in The American Spectator quoted a secret CIA report that Flight 800 was at the very extreme limits of a shoulder-fired SAM, and it would have been a very lucky shot. The warhead on a missile like that is very tiny, and is intended to destroy the back end of a jet engine, and not vaporize the whole aircraft.
Also, high-bypass turbofans mix lots of cold air with the exhaust plume, making for a much less intense IR source for a heat seeker. Modern turbofans on airliners have a form of "built-in" IR protection.
But a couple of pound of Semtex, placed on the floor in the right seat row inside the plane, will decapitate it. The 747 is built in pieces, and then joined together. One joint is where the nose/first class section joins the more tubular main part of the body. Aerodynamic forces would instantly finish the job started by the explosion.
We know the crew had no warning of what was happening. Get hit by a SAM, and you at least have enough time to get out a mayday, even if you don't know what's causing all the red lights to appear. But they were flying along fat, dumb, and happy, then the entire front of the plane was sliced off. Even a large SAM can't do that, but properly placed explosives can.
I remember that Algore was talking billions for airport security, paid for by the airlines. Then all of a sudden "center fuel tank explosion" became the official answer, and millions of dollars from the airlines appeared in the DNC bank account.
The initiating event was at 13,800 ft. The altitude of the Massive Fireball Explosion of 8000 ft. is about right for a ballistic fall, given the forward momentum of the remaining aft section of the aircraft. It does NOT allow any time for the CIA's and NTSB's mythical "Zoom climb" of the noseless 747.
The altitude was actually a little lower than normal for that particlular flight path because it had been delayed by traffic above it and placed in a lower altitude for a short time by the controllers. At the time of the incident it had started to climb again.
I believe that article was posted by John Fiorentino, not me. However, to ascertain the provenance of those "pellets" would require the re-opening of the TWA-800 investigation. The independent investigators do not have possession of the "pellets"... just the reports. Like much of the other evidence from TWA-800 that raises questions of foul-play, it has been swept under the official rug.
Where were you during the eight years of deception? I'd put absolutely NOTHING past those people, but proof is hard to come by.
I can't say for certain, but I suspect self-deception on the part of many of the witnesses. Unless they sequestered themselves immediately, and wrote down their impressions, they're vulnerable to re-interpreting what they saw in light of further news/conversations, and even re-thinking the event. And it was a horrific event that would obviously be etched in their minds. Rush recently mentioned a study that showed how a large portion of test subjects were easily convinced that they remembered Daffy Duck at Disneyland when they were kids.
A shoulder-fired SAM is a tiny missile, with a small flame, and a thin column of white smoke. Depending on how far the witnesses were from the probable launch site, it might be too faint to really be seen. Also, why were these people looking at that spot in the sky anyway? The plane itself was unremarkable.
It would take at least 15 seconds for even a supersonic SAM to reach that altitude. How many people were watching that entire time? And if they weren't watching from the start, what caused them to switch to the scene? My own theory is that they saw the breakup and explosion of the main explosion of the plane, which was shooting upwards, trailing fire and debris. The human mind then provides the "reasonable" explanation, a fire trail from the ground to what they saw in the sky.
I'm not saying these people lied, but there are plenty of opportunities here for honest self-deception. From what I've read about missile hits, only a powerful bomb placed at the right location in the aircraft structure could produce the type of damaged indicated.
It would be bad enough for 800 to be taken down with a SAM. But even worse if a bomb, produced and placed by someone with expert knowledge, was the real culprit. The klinton regime quickly decided that campaign contributions from the airline industry was far more preferable than telling the American people that we were under terrorist attack. So they produced the "center fuel tank" myth, that merely stated that every 747 has always been a potential flying bomb.
Quite a few, actually. I spoke personally to Mike Wire, arguablly the witness most believed by the FBI/CIA/NTSB to be credible, judging by the efforts made to distort his account by the production of the infamous series of "cartoons." After speaking to him I have no doubt that he saw exactly what he described. And he did not discribe an airliner climbing and shedding parts. He described a missile.
You can't say at all. Why would they delude themselves? Certainly they did not get any accolades for their testimony, no rewards; they got nothing but accusations of being mistaken, drunk or deluded from the investigators.
Rush recently mentioned a study that showed how a large portion of test subjects were easily convinced that they remembered Daffy Duck at Disneyland when they were kids.
Strange you should cite that Rush broadcast... because it somewhat makes your point stronger. Rush actually said "Bugs Bunny" not "Daffy Duck".
A shoulder-fired SAM is a tiny missile, with a small flame, and a thin column of white smoke. Depending on how far the witnesses were from the probable launch site, it might be too faint to really be seen. Also, why were these people looking at that spot in the sky anyway? The plane itself was unremarkable.
The test firing of a MANPADs missile in similar conditions showed that it was indeed visible and matched what many of the witnesses reported. The other point to be made is that it may not have been a "shoulder-fired SAM." A short time before the downing of TWA-800, a tripod mounted anti-aircraft missile was found set-up, ready to fire, on a Long Island road... it would have had greater range and produced a greater explosion. My understanding was that this particular model required two to three men to transport, set-up and fire.
The number of people looking in the right direction to see the event is not surprising. This is one of the most densely populated areas of the United States; to have just 600-700 eyewitnesses is a low number from the millions of potential witnesses in the area. Many people were on the beach, partying on seaside patios, etc.
It would take at least 15 seconds for even a supersonic SAM to reach that altitude. How many people were watching that entire time? And if they weren't watching from the start, what caused them to switch to the scene? My own theory is that they saw the breakup and explosion of the main explosion of the plane, which was shooting upwards, trailing fire and debris. The human mind then provides the "reasonable" explanation, a fire trail from the ground to what they saw in the sky.
Actually, a Mach 2.2 velocity anti-aircraft missile would make the ground to impact in under 10 seconds assuming an arcing trajectory. Actual reports of eyewitnesses put it at about 8 seconds. Many of the eyewitnesses claimed to have noticed a "flare" or "fireworks" like object rising at some point in its flight and then paid attention to the rest of the event.
The CIA and NTSB cartoons that show the plane "shooting upwards, trailing fire and debris" could not have happened. The radar track, the math, and physics do not support such a scenario. The MOST the plane could have climbed after decapitation of its nose was under 200 feet. Had the plane climbed as depicted in either of those cartoons, it would have taken between 8 and 16 seconds to reach the peak altitudes (NTSB-15,300ft, CIA-17,600ft) the two "official" scenarios propose. The fall from the additional altitude would equal the climb time... and then you add the fall time from the original event altitude. We know WHEN the last radar return showing the wreckage of TWA-800 on the screen occurred. Since there were no further returns after that, the main body of wreckage was in the Atlantic Ocean. IF the plane had climbed at all, there would have been between 3 and 7 ADDITIONAL radar returns in between 16 to 32 seconds additional "flight" time. There WERE NO MORE RADAR RETURNS. Therefore, the "Zoom climb" did not and could not have happened.
In addition to the time, we know the triangulation of the radar returns and therefore know the locations of the last radar return... it is consistent with where the plane splashed down. Had there been an arcing climb as per the CIA/NTSB cartoons then the plane would have splashed down a mile or more farther east than it did.
The radar returns, their positions, and times, the location of the main body of the wreckage, and the time of splashdown are ONLY consistent with a ballistic fall from the initiating event that broke the nose off the plane at 13,800 ft. with little or no climb.
How about a "successful" show bomber? One like....RICHARD REID?
Whereas someone who believes the party line on TWA 800 is... gullible?
IMO, this was the most revealing data released during the whole investigation. It has never been logically explained. The fist size holes are a perfect description of the results of a missle warhead detonation damage.
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