Women should be drafted

The Boston Globe ^ | 2/17/03 | Cathy Young Op-Ed

[Gothmog]

THE PROSPECT of war with Iraq has sparked a discussion of the possibility of bringing back military conscription. So far, such a move seems unlikely; the only calls for a reinstatement of the draft have come from war opponents such as Representative Charles Rangel, Democrat of New York, who argues that war requires ''shared sacrifice'' (and believes that if a draft were in place, our government would be more reluctant to go to war).

[jwalsh07]

I'm afraid your feelings on the subject have become passe.

Fear not, I have no qualms at being identified as one who understands that there are differences between men and women.

Women have fought for the right to be integrated into the military for three decades now and now that they have finally achieved their goal, it's time they started facing up to the responsibility. Remember, it wasn't the men that fought to integrate women into the military, it was the women themselves. This is what they wanted. And if there are women who don't want this, well, they didn't speak up all too loud, now did they?

Women are free to enter the military just like you or your sons. You're arguing that women should be drafted. Two different things. I favor a voluntary military, we all volunteered. I know, you've said you do too but you still advocate for drafting women if their is a draft and I'm telling you that you're wrong.

Do you seperate women from their children? Do you draft husband and wife? Do you draft 26 year old women and not 27 year old men? Do you only draft women into support and technical positions while telling men they are only required for combat arms? Do you draft equal numbers of men and women so that the present force is politically correct?

I don't think many of us want our sons drafted either. I certainly don't want to see my sons drafted (though if they enlist, I'm all for it). I'd like to see the military stay all-volunteer, myself.

I don't want to see your son drafted either but I would much prefer to see my son in law drafted than my daughter or my son rather than my daughter in law if I had them.

I'm a social conservative Sam which means I think women should be women, my grandsons get toy guns for Christmas and my granddaughters get dolls. Guess what? They both like their gifts with equal passion. Amazing huh?

Equal rights can be a bitch, can't it?

Sure can but then again so can being a man. In closing I'd say that women should be eligible for the draft when you give birth to and nuture your next son.

[jwalsh07]

My wife, my sisters and my daughters all have their own 20 gauges and if it came to it, they would use them but drafting women is nt an idea whose time has come because if it has, then the only pc thing to do would be to have half women and half men in the armed forces with no exemptions from combat arms.

Otherwise it's farce, not equality, farce. But hey, thats JMHO. :-}

[AnalogReigns]

In regards to political games with the feminists....I don't want to risk the lives of American femininity, just to call the (often irrational) feminists' bluff.

I believe a lot of activist feminists--being personally older than draft age, AND thinking if women were included in selective service, we'd be a LOT less likely to ever use it again---would be more than happy to have young women required to sign up with the selective service.

This is just a sign of an increasing moral erosion--of blurring the line between men and women.

[cherry]

"Hey, it would have been fine by me to not have them in the military at all. But since they are in the military, I do expect them to be held to the same standards as the men. If men must register for the draft, I think the women must be compelled to register for the draft as well. If women have a problem with this, then why weren't they speaking up 30 years ago when the feminists were calling us sexist pigs for wanting to keep the military an all-male institution?"

my mother is a WW2 veteran who worked state-side in hospital and TB sanitoriums....I am sure she would dissagree with you about the "30" years statement because women have been vital in support roles of the military for some time....I am sure my mom saw many deaths and injuries in her work that would rival some men's expieriences...

Men control and have controlled the military as well the government...why would they allow women in if they didn't think them capable....I think you have a problem with the leadership of MEN not women...men are the ones relaxing the rules...

but at the very foundation of this MEN vs WOMEN in the workforce which includes the military is this:..unequal opportunities for finacial benefit...that is why there has been this long drawn out batte between feminists and others...

just look at the compensation packages of fireman and police and throw in all of the mostly male dominated fields and compare them to any female dominated fields....not even close.......the disparity in pay, benefits, retirement etc is very out of line that frankly, I don't blame women for wanting to try male-oriented jobs such as the military...

maybe, just maybe, if women's work were more valued , more compensated, then there wouldn't be this crush to bash every bastion of maleness...such as the military and the police and the fire dept...which most of us do acknowledge has work that women can not physically do....

[independentmind]

I feel that if we "call the bluff" of the feminists and start requiring women to register for the draft as men, that they will start backing off a little and they might not be so quick to keep pushing the envelope in the future. It is my opinion that if we continue to reassure them (the feminists) that there never will be any call to draft women, that they will continue to push for women to assume ever increasing roles, even combat roles. Right now, the feminists are fighting this on principle and for political gain as they are feeling confident that nobody will ever call them on it. But I am telling them to put up or shut up.

And in the meantime you apparently are willing to risk the lives of many American women who have no dog in the fight. How wonderfully, marvelously gallant of you.

[biblewonk]

Women should be drafted

As cooks and nurses but not as soldiers.

[SamAdams76]

And in the meantime you apparently are willing to risk the lives of many American women who have no dog in the fight. How wonderfully, marvelously gallant of you.

Please do explain. How would their lives be risked if they are not being drafted for combat roles (which I have already stated several times but you evidently have a reading comprehension problem). And where are all these women with "no dog in the fight." They sure didn't speak up or raise a fuss when their "sisters" were making all these social changes on their behalf. If there are all these women out there who don't believe women should be in the military, shame on them for not speaking up when it could have made a difference.

[AnalogReigns]

Forgetting tradition and e'spirit de corps issues....the most rational thing would be to have blind physical strength and endurance tests for men and women--and those who passed could go on to various combat roles. We know from physical differences--90% of young men would pass, and 95%+ of young women would not...but then we'd have similar roles as we do now in the military--and this wouldn't suit the PC/feminist crowd, since results would prove them foolish in their absurd ideas of "equality."

Men and women are of equal value for society only when they are in different roles. Killing people and breaking things---since it requires physical strength---should be left up to the men.

Our enemies will not be so foolish as to worry about "equality."

[u-89]

You're preaching to the choir!

Didn't mean to sound preachy Boss but the line of your's that I plucked out was just very convenient for me to use to make my point which was more of a general statement to all. Since it was your quote I used it naturally got addressed to you in reply - sort of how this forum works, I guess I should have addressed it to all.

Regarding Viet Nam I am not sure that the whole mess was as bad as it was entirely because of the draft but rather by the way it was run from D.C. That said a friend of mine volunteered for special forces in Nam because he thought he would live longer being with proffessionals who wanted to be doing what they were doing instead of being in with a bunch of draftee screw ups who didn't want to be there. He also said he believes half our casulaties were unneccessary result of drug users, like truck drivers driving off roads and killing people in accidents and just plain drug overdoses. He also said that some very unproffessional people got people killed in combat needlessly - like not reading maps correctly and being where they didn't belong and getting taken for the enemy and being rained on by our artillery. Anyhow that's how he saw it in '70-71.

[independentmind]

If there are all these women out there who don't believe women should be in the military, shame on them for not speaking up when it could have made a difference.

I don't have a reading comprehension problem, but sometimes I read threads less thoroughly than I should.

You ask an interesting question. I would suggest that many women had no idea what the consequences of many ideas put forth by the feminists would be. Give it another ten years and see if things don't start to change.

[AnalogReigns]

Please do explain. How would their lives be risked if they are not being drafted for combat roles

This is the biggest flaw in your argument--a war so serious as to require re-institution of the draft would not neatly divide combat and non-combat roles. Just as many women were killed in the biggest single attack in the Gulf War (when a scud hit a barracks...well behind the lines....full of non-combattant military personelle).

ANYONE in the military is a potential combatant, particularly in the unpredictability of modern warfare. There is no way you could (or even should) guarantee those in non-combat roles in the military will not actually see combat.

Draft our daughters...and they WILL get killed--and face a more humiliating fate beforehand, from our male enemies...

[Paul C. Jesup]

The is not the 1950's, feminists have shoving their type of equality (meaning that women are better than men) down mens' throats for two generations.

If you had a actual draft and women were NOT included, that could be the straw that broke the camel's back, you may end up with a rebellion on your hands.

[SamAdams76]

I don't have a reading comprehension problem, but sometimes I read threads less thoroughly than I should.

Don't worry about it. I'm guilty of the same offense myself sometimes (I think most of us are).

I know many women here are vehemently against the draft for women (as are many men), even if they are drafted for support roles only, and I think this is a good thing. I think this is a chink in the feminist's armor that should be exploited for all it's worth. Millions of women will turn on the NOW gang in fury if draft registration is ever required of women. For it is the NOW gang driving this whole issue. They say be careful for what you ask for, you might get it. I say let's concede this battle to the NOW gang and we can sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

[Protagoras]

I think there is a role for women in the military, but not in any combat or combat support role.

I don't believe in the draft. But having said that, some of the most effective soldiers have been females. The Russians had a sniper in WWII who was devasting to the Nazis. We have combat pilots right now.

And in most cultures throughout history, females have killed the enemy when necessary.

[SamAdams76]

ANYONE in the military is a potential combatant, particularly in the unpredictability of modern warfare. There is no way you could (or even should) guarantee those in non-combat roles in the military will not actually see combat.

Point well taken. But let's take your point to its logical conclusion. Due to the unpredictability of modern warfare, not only will military personnel in non-combat roles be exposed to danger, but so will civilians as well. The passengers of the hijacked airplanes and the workers in the World Trade Center are good examples of this.

In fact, it could be argued that our non-combat military personnel are in even less danger then civilians because they will have the protection of the U.S. military might all around them.

[Ohioan]

Andy-- Your mirrors look fine. With regard to the prevalence of the "politically correct" terminology on sex--and indeed on just about everything else--this is not as deep as you may assume at first blush. Modern "Liberalism" is cloud and windborne. They fling words around, but those words do not have substance--they are flights of fancy, meaning different things to different people.

Thus people may speak of equality--even equality of the sexes--and yet the concrete images in their own lives are as different as they have always been. "Equality" has become a word, which many actually equate with "respect," even though they are as inherently contradictory as are "equality" and liberty. The problem is that the Left has undermined the ability to understand cause and effect; to see the relevance of reality in terms of other reality; to see the forest, despite the inane focus on a particular tree, or an imaginary tree (grievance), etc..

Hang in there. Ultimately, those who do not feel a need to parrot nonsense will have to pick up the pieces, after the harvest of "liberalism" has destroyed our figurative houses, barns and livestock.

Bill Flax

[bc2]

God bless you, Bill.

as always, I enjoy your work and am happy to host it for you. sorry about not being able to help sell your book, but I hope you understand!

I dunno how far from Columbus you are, but I have friends there that I will be visiting in the spring. Maybe you can sign my copy of "The Conservative Debate Handbook"!!

:)

[notpoliticallycorewrecked]

I didn't join the military to get equal rights. I joined for the same reason that most men also join, for the education. I believe that it made me a better person in that, it made me even more patriotic and consevative. Perhaps reinstating the draft for both men and women would allow them the opportunity to mature and step out of their little world.
I believe that the worse thing this country did was to stop the draft. That was when we turned the young men of this country into a bunch of pansies.

Easily 85 percent of the people that have had a stint in the military come out saying that they grew up while they were in. And this is a bad thing????? I'd be willing to bet that we will greatly improve our chances of turning this country around.

[LuisBasco]

Any nation that would put it's women on the front line isn't worth defending.

[bannie]

It may be time. Things have become so skewered that down is up and up is down. It may be time to shake things back to reality.