White House Floats Idea of Dropping Income Tax (altogether)

New York Times, Business and Financial Desk, Page 14, Column 5 ^ | 2/8/2003 | EDMUND L. ANDREWS

[Bigun]

White House Floats Idea of Dropping Income Tax Overhaul By EDMUND L. ANDREWS

WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 — President Bush, having already set off a firestorm over his proposals to cut taxes and revamp retirement accounts, suggested today that the time might be near to drop the income tax as a whole and replace it with some form of consumption tax...

[demosthenes the elder]

a little sadism - when practised on serpents and cockroaches - might be a good thing in a President.

[Paul Ross]

[aruanan]

Yes, but the title on the thread now (White House Floats Idea of Dropping Income Tax (altogether)) is different from what it was when I initially responded a couple of hours ago (White House Floats Idea of Dropping Income Tax Overhaul).

Sorry. I looked up my original from the cache. The title of the thread was correct. It was the title of the piece cited below the thread title that incorrectly summarized the story. Obviously, Bush isn't thinking about dropping a serious idea for reform of the income tax scheme--most liberals, reading this second headline, would think that it was saying something to the effect that Bush was coming over to their side and would, perhaps, even see the light and raise tax rates as they believe his father did.

[Capitalism2003]

I'm willing to bet that abolishing all income/payroll taxes and replacing them with a flat 20% sales tax would give us a 50 trillion dollar economy by 2013...strength...success...prosperity...

hell on earth for liberals.

[umgud]

Hey, I just jumped in and like what I see. But......... (the proverbial but), has anyone explained how the pols can conduct successful social engineering without the current tax framework?

[Temple Owl]

Go Dubya Go!!!!

[Enough is ENOUGH]

I remember listening to a radio show in LA about ten years ago consisting of a panel of CPA's, attorneys and government consultants who agreed that if the government ever resorted to a flat tax or any other substitute form of taxation that whatever the original tax rate was set at it would eventually be driven up. Without the obligatory type of deductions we now have available to us which isn't much we would be at the mercy of our spend and tax government who would be inclined to seek continued rate increases.

Do you really trust the government at their word? "No new taxes!"

[ijcr]

Income tax in Britain was never repealed, the VAT was imposed as a condition of membership of the Common Market (EU)in 1973. The selling point was Britain would get back more than it put in...that lasted only a few years.

[Bigun]

...has anyone explained how the pols can conduct successful social engineering without the current tax framework?

Nope! And all I can say is:

We don't need no stinkin "social engineering"!

[Bigun]

Do you really trust the government at their word? "No new taxes!"

Not at all! But I DO trust the good American people who, when the NRST is in place, will be able to see, with EVERY purchase, exactly what government REALLY costs!

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

Do you really trust the government at their word? "No new taxes!"

I completely agree. NO NEW TAXES! We need to reform the old income tax system. Make it a flat icome tax of 10%. Then put tarriffs on imported goods. I am sick of China and their sweatshops causing jobs to be exported from America.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Items or services taxed ONLY one time, at the point of RETAIL sale!

What items and/or services and at what rate?

Oil and gas for heating? Clothes? Food? Water? Electricity? Cable TV? Phone service? Trash pickup? UPS/Fedex delivery? Rent?........10%? 20%? 30%? More?

All valid questions. There is much to be considered. The speed at which our Federal beauracracy moves...I don't expect to see this in my lifetime. They'll need to repeal the 22nd Ammendment first to make sure that GWB can get this done.

[Plutarch]

Consumption tax = Value Added Tax.

A VAT is an invisible and insidious tax. Do you know how much of your $1.78 per gallon unleaded is tax? I thought so. The most likely scenario is that we'd end up like Europe, with both a VAT and an income tax, and a larger welfare state.

[SierraWasp]

"has anyone explained how the pols can conduct successful social engineering without the current tax framework?"

escuse me... ESCUSE ME... ESCUSE ME...

You have me confused with somebody who really gives a ... oh yeah, HOOT!!!

[RS]

Un;ess it it tied to a repeal of the 16th.. I would not trust any future government to just see it as an easy way to make "just a little money from the really rich for a short time"

[ijcr]

On the contrary, over 50% of Americans do not pay Federal Income tax, in fact, thanks to EIC many are net gainers.
I go with the Fairtax people otherwise we will be slaughtered in the polls.

[FreedomCalls]

Hey, never let facts stand in the way of a good story ;-)

Thanks for the correction.

But the point is still valid is it not? That they have both a VAT and an income tax as well on top of the VAT. Their money is double taxed in and out.

In the words of the late George Harrison:

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet

Taxman!
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

Don't ask me what I want it for
If you don't want to pay some more
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

And you're working for no one but me
Taxman!

[VA40]

Not everyone has their savings in a 401(k). Some have their life savings (that has already been taxed) in the bank. I'm thinking of my retired parents that didn't have IRAs and 401s. They live off their savings. This would subject them to full taxation for the second time.

[Bigun]

It's all spelled out in the bill which can be found at http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.25:.

Please take a little time and READ it!

[EVO X]

A VAT is an invisible and insidious tax. Do you know how much of your $1.78 per gallon unleaded is tax? I thought so. The most likely scenario is that we'd end up like Europe, with both a VAT and an income tax, and a larger welfare state.

Ditto that. Look at the German economy. 11% unemployment.