From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing

NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

[Wolfstar]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.

[Mr Fowl]

Did anyone see that video that (I'M sure you's all seen) when the camera gets a close-up of the shuttle on reentry just before the contrail starts and then the camera zooms back?

Anyway, when the camera zooms in at first it looks like the shuttle is going sideways with the rear of the shuttle facing camera and the left wing facing the direction of travel!

Hope someone on freerepublic can run across that video and post the beginning frames of that video to make sure I'M not seeing things!

[Arkinsaw]

I wonder if the backing was damaged, if a whole "sheet" of tiles couldn't come loose and peel off.

The tiles are glued to the nylon sheet and the nylon sheet is glued to the shuttle with the same glue.

[TennesseeProfessor]

I refuse to accept that there was nothing NASA could do. If the engineers thought the heat tiles were severly damaged, there are several things they could have tried:

• The Russians just launched a resupply ship to the ISS. Perhaps they could have sent it to the shuttle instead? It would have given three astronaughts the chance to escape, and supplied food, air, and water to the other four, giving additional time.
• The space shuttle Atlantis is currently being prepped. Much of the delay in shuttle launches is caused by cargo checks and science training; skip all the cargo and a stacked, unloaded shuttle could be launched in a week.
• It's worth pointing out that NASA was experimenting with a tile repair kit in the 1970's; perhaps this could have been sent up as well.
• Surely they could have modified the reentry pattern to reduce the heating.
• Even if none of these are viable plans, and there really is absolutely nothing to do but reenter on a standard pattern and possibly fry, at a minimum ditch the science pod to reduce the weight and hence the heating.

If NASA's engineers genuinely believed that the impact caused minimal damage, then I'm not going to second-guess them after the fact. But when I hear people say ostrich things like "It wasn't worth checking for tile damage because there was nothing to do about it anyway", I vehemently disagree.

[El Gato]

He was flying a rock and had no controls whatsoever.

Then why did I hear him say yesterday that he had to do part of the re-entry manually, and not just the overiding of the jetisoning of the retro pack. I believe he had attitude control, and up through Apollo, you "flew" the beast by adjusting the attitude of the capsult relative to the "wind". (Come to think about it, that's what airplanes do too, but they use aerodynamic forces on control surfaces to adjust the attitude of a wing, rather than using reaction controls to adjust the attitude of a rounded bottom can)

[DoughtyOne]

Folks, I've enjoyed discussing this issue. None of us has all the answers. I have simply asked questions that occur to me. I'm sorry if some of you think these questions are unfair to NASA. I think the seven men and women who died deserve our efforts to hold NASA's feet to the fire, to make sure this investigation is forthright and honest, and that policies and contingencies are devised to make sure we don't lose 7 more down the road.

Some of you are convinced NASA is beyond reproach. I'm not so sure. I appreciate your arguements. Some of you made some good ones. Take care.

[Jael]

EVERYTHING is monitored as it happens during lift-off. I don't know where you people keep coming up with the idea that NASA is so careless as to not get around to looking at things like that until the next day.

But regardless of that, the fact remains that NASA knew about the foam insulation being a problem since 1997.

[Jael]

NASA has already comfirmed it was insulation from the fuel tank.

[meyer]

For the last couple of days they have talked about a zippering effect. I'm not sure what would precipitate that occurance. Others have stated correctly, that many shuttles have lost tiles. The loss of a few didn't translate into a failure. I imagine the position, plus the manner of loosening etc, would determine the loss of one, more or many tiles.

Its conjecture on my part, but I think that the zipper effect would be a problem when there was a loss of several tiles in a single area. If that happens, then the heat protection in that area would be lost and the underlying metal would eventually melt, given the heat involved. As it melted, it would soften and start to peel back exposing an ever increasing interior of the ship to the intense heat of re-entry. The ship would essentially "unzip" or peel apart from that point.

[fightu4it]

Have they recovered the black Box yet?

Doesn't have one???

Why not???

[Jael]

The lift off is monitored as it happens. Please don't think that NASA is so careless as to not monitor every aspect of lift off.

Listen, you have posted several things you have been corrected on. I've tried to be nice about it and given you the information from accredited sources. I don't think you should be casting aspersions upon anyone, or trying to assign motives.

I understand that you are a loyal Republican. I am a loyal American. And seven Americans died. I'll not be silent about the probelms I see with what happened.

[meyer]

Apparently space travel is also hazardous on the ground. NASA was lucky no one on the ground was hurt with tons of shuttle pieces raining down. Safety is not just about the astronauts, it's about the rest of us too.

Perhaps. Should we defund NASA? How about air travel?

[Light Speed]

Sure...why would com link terminate?
Even if Columbia suffered a cascade computer failure...Nasa would have data stream...or are they withholding something?
The computer cycles as per de-orbit burn..then trim to S turns.
The computer is sequenced to adjust to S trun profile..there is an abort redundant sequence activation should descent profile go wrong.
if Columbia's de-orbit burn failed...there would be telelmetry...if Columbias profile to...and In S turn were off...Telemetry would be available...even if com link was ionized.
I still am in the dark understanding wise as to the distance from S turn Columbia was in when com link failed.
A detonation..a computer error in thruster activation could have sent Columbia into an unrecoverable mode.
Question remains...why the silence..even if Columbias profile was deteriorating.
Something catastrophic occured suddenly.

[El Gato]

The original designers of the space shuttle came up with design criterea. They deemed this to be the most viable design.

Not really, the original designs would have been more robust, but Nixon/Ford and especialy Carter cut the funding for the detailed design and production so much that they weren't able to actually build their first choice, based on original budget projections. Additionally I believe the total number of shuttles was cut, so that it would be longer between flights, which in turn means less likelyhood of a rescue bird being availble, even on a rush basis.

See the "Moose" rescuse system in the posts above. I think such a thing could be designed (in detail) and built today, fairly quickly and fairly cheaply, as a stopgap until a better aerospace plane and/or cargo lauch system can be designed and built.

[Howlin]

Listen, you have posted several things you have been corrected on.

And unlike you, I have admitted when I was wrong or wasn't sure I was posting the right things.

And I know you were corrected on several things today by a NASA employee and yet you continue to post them.

[meyer]

Take care, doughtyOne. For the record, I don't think NASA's beyond reproach. I just think that guilt must be proven, particularly in these circumstances. I'm defending them, but if you convince me otherwise, I'll change my tune. I promise.

Rest well!

[Arkinsaw]

The Russians just launched a resupply ship to the ISS. Perhaps they could have sent it to the shuttle instead? It would have given three astronaughts the chance to escape, and supplied food, air, and water to the other four, giving additional time.

Well Professor, How would it dock with Columbia with no docking interface? If it had a docking interface how would it dock with the space lab attached?

The space shuttle Atlantis is currently being prepped. .....It's worth pointing out that NASA was experimenting with a tile repair kit in the 1970's; perhaps this could have been sent up as well.

First they had no way of knowing if there was actually damage and an EVA to repair "possible" damage would have a high risk of damaging tiles itself due to the fact that there are no hand or footholes on the underside of the craft and the only way for an astronaut to move would have required pushing off of tiles with hands and feet and bumping around under there with hard equipment and helmets. The reason tile repair kits weren't sent is because of this and the fact that they couldn't get them to work particularly well.

Surely they could have modified the reentry pattern to reduce the heating.

Ummmm, the reentry pattern is designed to reduce heating as much as possible anyway. It would be senseless to design a reentry pattern that did not reduce heating as much as possible.

Even if none of these are viable plans, and there really is absolutely nothing to do but reenter on a standard pattern and possibly fry, at a minimum ditch the science pod to reduce the weight and hence the heating.

I doubt that it is held in with rubber bands or strings. I have no idea how difficult it would be to detach the science lab......but you don't either.

[Arkinsaw]

Twice in two days on the same side of an issue. Remarkable.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Windows are mainly for seeing where you're going (pilots) or for sightseeing (passengers). But every window is a potential point of failure. I imagine the shuttle designers would have kept windows to a minimum. With a few recent notable exeptions, the shuttle isn't "Cafay Pacific" airways.

[meyer]

Have they recovered the black Box yet?

Unlike ordinary air travel, all data from the shuttle is simultaneously transmitted to Houston. Houston is the black box - it has all flight data up to the time of loss of communications (and perhaps beyond if there was another means of communication that we civilians don't know about).

[Light Speed]

Yes to un zip..but...
Columbia's sensor grid would have detected that as heat spread
Even if Columbia could not comment from Cockpit...Nasa would have the telemetry.