From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing

NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

[Wolfstar]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.

[TheDon]

Good list. Add to that, record the damage close up to help engineers better understand what happened. Whatever evidence of the damage existed after launch has been destroyed.

[Wild Irish Rogue]

" I typed what I heard. And as I told everybody on the thread, I was at a disadvantage because I did NOT know what they were talking about."

I watched the NASA presser using closed captioning and your impressions are exactly as mine were.The main point I took from the conference,was that the engineers looked at the models from every conceivable angle and probability and determined that there was not going to be a problem,from the debris hitting the wing.As the father of an aerospace engineer and the brother of a mechanical engineer,I can say from personal experience that these guys share an almost OCD quality about their work and life. Ever watch an engineer hang a picture? They get out the rulers and plumb lines and stud finders and make a 2 minute project into a 20 minute ordeal,at best. I look at the wall and gestimate and slap up the picture.My pictures always lean and theirs are perfection.The assumption that some are making is that the engineers acknowledged there would be a problem and then ignored the solution.What I took from the press op today,like you,is that the engineers did not think the tile damage,if any,would be a problem.

[Jhoffa_]

Other tiles, ceramic floor tiles in fact are quite brittle..

If you step on or drop one you will certainly break it.

With materials like this their strength comes from the backing material, it distributes the load evnely and keeps the tile from hinging..

I wonder if the backing was damaged, if a whole "sheet" of tiles couldn't come loose and peel off.

If tiles are the issue, I bet backing is the cause.

[PhiKapMom]

It wasn't you, it was the press today! I just wanted to make sure you knew it was inches. I got it in my email several times about it being feet!

[Jael]

"During Columbia's launching Jan. 16, long-range tracking cameras showed a relatively large piece of foam debris falling away from the shuttle's external tank and striking the underside of the orbiter's left wing."

I'm sorry to disagree with you, Jael

You are not disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with NASA.

[Arkinsaw]

Give it up, people are in the anger stage now and not up for rationality.

[El Gato]

They told him not to eject the service module of his capsule

There was no "service module" in the Mercury system. It was the retro rocket pack that he was told not to eject, and he didn't.

[garbanzo]

This is the key issue as far as I'm concerned. It has to be the case that someone at sometime considered the loss of tiles in flight as a serious problem. What I want to know is who signed off on the design issues which made it impossible to rescue such a crew or at the very least make survival more likely in such a situation?

[OldFriend]

LOLOL....thanks for the double correction......you ain't him and you didn't get a dime!

[DoughtyOne]

For the last couple of days they have talked about a zippering effect. I'm not sure what would precipitate that occurance. Others have stated correctly, that many shuttles have lost tiles. The loss of a few didn't translate into a failure. I imagine the position, plus the manner of loosening etc, would determine the loss of one, more or many tiles.

[Jael]

It isn't that the tiles are not safe. It's the foam insulation on the fuel tank. And they have known about it since 1997.

"A review of the records of the STS-86 records revealed that a change to the type of foam was used on the external tank. This event is significant because the pattern of damage on this flight was similar to STS-87 but to a much lesser degree. The reason for the change in the type of foam is due to the desire of NASA to use "environmentally friendly" materials in the space program. Freon was used in the production of the previous foam. This method was eliminated in favor of foam that did not require freon for its production. MSFC is investigating the consideration that some characteristics of the new foam may not be known for the ascent environment."

http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:ryqlvTHKXEgC:ltp.arc.nasa.gov/space/team/journals/katnik/sts87-12-23.html+greg+katnik+tile+damage&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[meyer]

This seems to be some kind of mantra to absolve NASA and to place this accident in the category of the acceptable risks of space flight. To me it always begs the question, "Why are we sending up shuttles with no hope of survival for the crew if the tiles become damaged during launch?" This is the question that needs to be answered. There are various means of saving the crew, but they all require preparation before the launch, and, obviously, none of them were done on this mission. A rather sad way to treat such brave souls. May the Columbia crew RIP.

Many shuttles have gone up and lost tiles either on the way up or the way down. It isn't unusual, and it is expected.

Is "there was nothing they could do" the entire quote or is it taken out of the context of something kind of like "once we realized that communications were lost, there was nothing we could do." I suspect that there is some serious misquoting going here, especially given the very candid interview I saw yesterday.

Everybody wants this to not have happened. But for some reason, it did. It remains that space travel is inherently dangerous. There's a series of perfect events that must take place to get there. There's another series of perfect events that must occur to get back. Occasionally, something isn't perfect - that's the human side of this. That's why space travel is voluntary, not mandatory. If it weren't dangerous, we'd all be doing it.

[Howlin]

Thank you. Being a court reporter, I can transcribe pretty well -- if it's about back injuries.......LOL.

[DoughtyOne]

The original designers of the space shuttle came up with design criterea. They deemed this to be the most viable design. I would tend to disagree with them. I think a pod should have been designed into the shuttle. If problems arose, the crew cabin could be separated and flown to earth. It may have cost more. So what?

Even if this was the initial design, and policy, why didn't a new policy spring forth eventually seeing a backup plan to lauch a second shuttle for rescue? We have shuttles only a few weeks to six weeks away from lauch most of the time. A crash program could be devised to make sure they could lauch sooner if a crisis arose.

Do we or do we not have such a contingency plan? If not, why not?

[sd-joe]

Good picture, and I respect your overall argument.

However, if you are implying that the picture proves something, I have no idea what it is.

[Arkinsaw]

There are various means of saving the crew, but they all require preparation before the launch, and, obviously, none of them were done on this mission. A rather sad way to treat such brave souls. May the Columbia crew RIP.

What various means are available for saving the crew and which ones were not done on this mission?

[VRWC For Truth]

Apparently space travel is also hazardous on the ground. NASA was lucky no one on the ground was hurt with tons of shuttle pieces raining down. Safety is not just about the astronauts, it's about the rest of us too.

[meyer]

Ever watch an engineer hang a picture? They get out the rulers and plumb lines and stud finders and make a 2 minute project into a 20 minute ordeal,at best.

Well, isn't that the way you're supposed to hang a picture?

[Jhoffa_]

They have to adhere to the shuttle somehow..

I guess if the adhesive failed (and aerodynamics might have helped this along) you could see a "zippering" effect..

Like running a water hose over pebbles.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Where did this come from? The National Inquirer? Give us a break.