Did NASA know there was a problem? PIC and Excerpts from an Israeli Article

Maariv ^

[yonif]

The left wing of the shuttle picture taken from the window of the shuttle.

Main Issue in the Article

Did Nasa know about this and therefore kept their silence, not telling the astronauts?

-The photo was revealed on Channel 1 of Israel. This pic was taken during an interview the Channel had with the Israeli astronaut.

[Dr. Zoo]

They took video pictures of the fuel tank being released, but could not take pictures of the wing from their vantage point.

[Jhoffa_]

If those black squiggles are cracks and that's the Shuttle wing I do not for a minute believe they would risk allowing that thing to land in it's current condition without AT LEAST informing the astronauts.

WHY? Why would they knowingly withold this information? And who in their right mind could look at that and not call it a structural problem? Do you honestly think a NASA engineer would poo-poo a thing like that?

Maybe they overlooked it, but I seriously doubt this was witheld intentionally.. Not after Challenger, not with Dubya wanting to increase their funding and send them on more missions, not with the worlds first Israeli astronaut onboard and the whole world watching.

NO WAY.

[Jhoffa_]

I thought it was an arrow..

[RaceBannon]

they had no way to fix it either. To bond that stuff you need a warm room, vacuum wrap the material, and use an epoxy that flows in room heat, not absolute zero of space.

I say, they didnt tell them, there was no way anyone could have stopped it, fixed it, and they knew it was up to God to get them home again alive either way.

I am not sure if that is evil. Why make them worry? There was NOTHING they could do about it.

[abner]

I agree with John. I don't think that is the wing of any space shuttle. If you look at the photos of the shuttle, the wing is much whiter and on the leading edge of the wing, it is a dark grey and black closer to the nose.

I only know this because I have had to study the way the shuttle is put together for our new hot air balloon.

Shuttle mock up

[First_Salute]

Some other pics from that website:

[SwinneySwitch]

"Repeat that the Columbia crew was not told of the problems, so they had no chance to investigate or try to fix them (A BIG THING)"

Whoever took this picture out the window was aware of potential problems!

[Blood of Tyrants]

It seems that those tiles are an EXTREMELY weak link.

[ao98]

Here is a picture from the shuttle

I can't figure out where the first picture on this thread was taken.

[RadioAstronomer]

2. Therefore the shuttle could have flown to the space station and waited there for another shuttle

Nope. the Delta-V was to great for the onboard fuel. It could not reach the ISS.

[Justa]

Wow, I can see that the damage was far greater than NASA had let on. Not only were there gouges and cuts in it but it had broken off and floated into view of the orbiter's windows.

[Ramius]

I don't know what that's a picture of, but it sure doesn't look like a shuttle wing to me.

That, and I don't even think you can get a clear shot out any of the windows of the *top* of a wing. The angle is all wrong. The crew windows are all way forward.

[yonif]

And they could have told the crew that they should do a spacewalk in order to try to closely examine the affected areas.

[abner]

It is not the wing. I will find some pics of the wings on the Columbia.

[Jerry505]

Two other things about trying to get to the ISS. One, the Columbia was too heavy to dock with the ISS, it's never used for those missions because of that. It was the heaviest of the Orbiters. Second, by day 16 it wouldn't have had anywhere near the fuel to reach the orbit ISS is in.

[John Valentine]

One by One:

Point One:

There was no effective way to view the underside of the shuttle wing from Earth or any space-based vantage point.

Point 2:

There was no fuel on board to take the shuttle to the ISS. The orbits of the shuttle and the ISS were not compatible. If the shuttle were to be able to rondevoux with the ISS it would have had to be programmed to do so from the start.

Even if the shuttle could have flown to the ISS, it could not link up since the docking module was not carried aboard, as it was not needed and was unusable for this mission.

Point 3:

The Columbia crew had no ability to either investigate or fix. Information would hvve been useless to them. They do not carry aboard the thoushands of different tile shapes and sizes needed to replace any given broken tile. Nor do they carry along the EVA suits unless the mission contemplates such activity. The crew could not go out into the vacuum of space, did not carry repair materials, and could not see the underside of the wing.

Point 4:

I cannot tell exactly what is depicted in this photograph. But I can tell you that it is not the wing. The left shuttle wing is not visible from the cockpit.

This entire article is written with a disregard for research into the facts. It is in the class of "3,000 year old mummy gives birth to healty baby boy," and is deserving of no more credence.

[yonif]

The front page of the Fed. 3 2003 Maariv Newspaper. The Headline: The Wing of Death

[yonif]

The front page of the Fed. 3 2003 Maariv Newspaper. The Headline: The Wing of Death

[isthisnickcool]

Nice big bold print you have there pardner. Unfortunately, they could not go to the IIS and they could not check or replace any of the tiles.

Let me clue you in on some things. Some things I know for a fact after being around people like Chris Kraft since I was very young. The people that work for NASA would not leave those people in the dark over anything they thought might put them in danger. It just is not done. It would not have been allowed. It is not an option. What kind of pu$$ys do you imagine are involved here?

If the taggers thought that there was a serious problem they would have told the crew. And there would not be some NASA suit telling them to do otherwise. That would not work anyway.

[Swordmaker]

1. Nasa Did not make any effort to investigate the outside of the ship for serious damage, even after seeing that panel fall on the wing. They could have used a telescope or a spy satellite to do so.

2. Therefore the shuttle could have flown to the space station and waited there for another shuttle

3. Repeat that the Columbia crew was not told of the problems, so they had no chance to investigate or try to fix them (A BIG THING)

The following is part of a post I left on another thread about the shuttle disaster in which a lot of this has already been discussed in detail. I constructed a decision tree based on the situation that NASA may have struggled with:

Previous Shuttle Thread

-------------------

Let us do a "what if" hypothetical.

Let us suppose NASA did suspect a problem with the left wing tiles. They knew they did not have the equipment on STS-107 to do an inspection, either remotely or personally. In addition, the information would be of little use in landing the Shuttle. One way or the other the tiles are either OK or they are not. Knowing which cannot change the re-entry methodology because flying the Shuttle is "like flying a gliding brick" as one early shuttle pilot put it. Because of the volatile supersonic flight characteristics of the Shuttle, it can only safely be handled by a pre-programed computer auto-pilot until the final landing stages. Therefore no "seat of the pants" flight manuevers would or could keep stress off of the left wing and prevent the disaster. Now, assuming this suspicion that the wing tiles are damaged, NASA's managers are faced with a decision: either they leave the shuttle and crew in orbit or they bring them home.

If they leave it in orbit the astronauts have only a few more days of life left. It is inevetible that they will die from asphixiation or CO2 poisoning when either system runs out or fails. Meanwhile, down on Earth NASA is faced with a public relations nightmare. Citizens, nations, families, and not least, politicians demand that SOMETHING BE DONE! But NASA knows they have no assets that can reach the doomed astronauts in time. Sad and pitiful pleadings from loved ones and stoic, resigned brave astronauts are contrasted with "do nothing" NASA administrators. In the end, the nation has a derelict space craft and seven dead astronauts in orbit and NASA has received a blackeye for inaction and mismanagement that may not be recoverable. This scenario is a LOSE-LOSE situation.

Altermately, they bring the shuttle home with two possible outcomes:

1: If the tiles are only minimally damaged, the shuttle lands, NASA managers quietly solve the falling insulation problem and everything is great. NASA WINS!

22: If the tiles are NG, the shuttle disintegrates on re-entry, the Astronauts are killed instantly with no suffering, no drawn out PR nightmare, and no accusations of NASA inaction in efforts to save them. The nation mourns its dead heroes, NASA mounts an investigation, finds the problem and fixes it to the acclaim of Congress who rewards them with added funding for shuttle maintanence. NASA DOESN'T LOSE... and in some ways NASA WINS.

Given this hypothetical, that NASA and the astronauts knew there was a potential problem, there is only one logical choice: Bring the astronauts and shuttle home, at least there is a 50-50 chance of the astronauts surviving. The option of leaving them in orbit is a guaranteed loser... the result is seven dead astronauts. The astronauts ONLY CHANCE was to de-orbit and risk re-entry. They took the only chance they had... and, sadly, they lost.

Bringing them home was a WIN-WIN for NASA in this cynical hypothetical case. Thank God, I am not cynical.