America will continue to bleed jobs

[FightingForFreedom]

Wages will not equalize between U.S. and foreign countries for a very long time, if ever. The problem is supply differences. The 100 million or so American workers are vastly outnumbered by the potential number of Chinese, Indian, and other developing nation's manufacturing and knowledge workers. The standard of living differential is also too great. The balancing act for U.S. and multi-national businesses that are outsourcing our jobs is to make sure they don't kill the golden goose (the American consumer) before they've generated an even bigger goose to take to slaughter in China, India, and other targeted markets. Remember, producing cheaply means nothing if there's nobody to buy the products. And no one has been as well-trained as the American consumer to buy, buy, buy, no matter how much in debt one becomes! As a software engineer, I've seen this problem coming for at least 5 years now, but it was well masked by the artificial high-tech bubble through March 2000. I'm not sure that there is an answer at this point -- the genie is out of the bag, so to speak. Once one company in an industry has convinced the govt to open a market in one undesirable country or other, all other companies with which it competes are forced to do the same. Bottling up the genie is notoriously difficult.

[BnBlFlag]

In case of a major war, we will be in one helluva shape without heavy industries such as refineries. We won WWII because of our far superior industrial production, not military genius.

[nopardons]

Not really and we were on WAR TIME production cycles.

[DBtoo]

Many of the bio and pharmaceutical research companies are locating around New York, Boston, and the San Francisco areas. Why would they want to go to areas with such high costs of living, dense populations, traffic jams and high taxes? It's just something I've wondered about.

[DBtoo]

Torie is a very knowledgebble man. You should pay attention to him and others who know far more than you do.

Me DBtoo. Me stupid.

[nopardons]

No, dear, not " stupid " ; just not well read enough. Expanding what you know can cure your problem. :-)

[DBtoo]

Where did I say "KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES"?

[Myrddin]

On Monday night I went to Frontier Pies for dinner. On Tuesday afternoon I passed the Frontier Pies restaurant. The sign said, "We are now closed. Thanks for 19 wonderful years Pocatello". The same basic sign text that the people at "BMC West Lumber" and "Ponderosa Paint" recently used. Frontier Pies doesn't have much competition. Their main flaw was high staff turnover and slow service. It's not a good sign when moderate size retail and chain store restaurants can't keep the doors open.

[waterstraat]

Not all of us agree on this issue, because some of us have been replaced by cheaper workers, and some of us have not yet been replaced.

Those here pretending to advocate "free trade", are only advocating "free trade" of 5 or 10 percent of our economy/jobs - they dont want their "own job" to be taken by a foreigner. Why not? if a foreigner can do it cheaper?

Why not replace "all" americans with immigrants or by out sourcing to foreign countries?

I cant think of any job now held by an american that cannot be done by a foreigner(except the president), either here, or out sourced. The cost savings would be tremendous if every current american worker was replaced by a cheaper foreign one. There are more than enough asians, latins, and africans to replace every single american still holding a job at an artificial high wage.

If anyone advocates free trade, then they cant disagree with 100% free trade.

[waterstraat]

In case of a major war, we will be in one helluva shape without heavy industries such as refineries. We won WWII because of our far superior industrial production, not military genius.

Yes, both the soviet union and american out-produced and outmanned the Germans. China will soon out produce and out man america.

You are focusing too much on the outcome of that war, and you are ignoring the "positive aspects of free trade and cheap labor" which the germans enjoyed.

You are overlooking the fact that the germans in ww2 produced many goods with a very cheap labor source thru their slave camps, and in economic theory, was better off than either america or the soviet union in the long run. The germans actually produced many goods from their slave labor campes at a far cheaper price than the americans could produce them by using american workers in american factories.

[1tin_soldier]

And when all U.S. jobs are out-sourced across our borders, with what would we purchase these goods and services?

Markets (when free) seek a level much like water. If I fill a glass half full of water, what is the chance that all the water would be on one side of the glass? The same chance as your economic model has of becoming a reality. The "loss of jobs" you point to as a crisis would certainly be curtailed (by the market) when, on balance, displaced workers become unable to find more productive (read: more highly valued) work than they had prior to their job being exported; as this would create a net loss to our economy.

Shall I assume you would petition our rulers to ban the creation of all labor-saving devices on the grounds that they cost jobs? If not, why? Also, would your state be better off if it imposed a tariff on all goods imported from other states? If not, why?

[1tin_soldier]

And mine.......... ;-)

Ping me anytime you find yourself surrounded by "fair" marketeers.

[Porterville]

United States ensures:

A. Property Rights
B. Knowledge Capital
C. Military might to ensure that our assets around the world is secure
D. Engineering knowledge unmatched
E. Scientific knowledge unmatched
F. Soft Sciences unmatched
G. Educated Consumers
F. Etcetera, etcetera

So let these foriegn nations build plastic containers and toys; haven't you ever heard of outsourcing??

[blueriver]

The "loss of jobs" you point to as a crisis would certainly be curtailed (by the market) when, on balance, displaced workers become unable to find more productive (read: more highly valued) work than they had prior to their job being exported; as this would create a net loss to our economy.

The net loss to "our" economy is not important in a "global" economy. As long as some one buys the goods the jobs will naturally go to the lowest paid worker, therefore your analysis that the job loss will stop simply does not make sense.

[Joe Hadenuf]

It seems to me that greed has gotten out of hand with the big multi-national companies, and America will never again see the standard of living it once had. Pat Buchanan was so right on that issue. We're all going to be a little poorer from now on. Even those of us with stocks are seeing them rapidly devalue.

Good post. And I tend to agree.

[Joe Hadenuf]

The screed is close to incoherent, and has almost no nexus to anything to do with economic reality or theory. It has echoes of a dead German philosopher who wrote books in England of massive malignant influence that have since been totally discredited.

Huh? You mean most of us are just imagining all of this down turning and lower standard of living?

[Torie]

I addressed that point in some detail in a later post on this thread. I trust you will find it, and if not, and are interested, will inquire where it is.

[Torie]

Read the whole thread and get back to me. I think I addressed all of this in some detail.

[Porterville]

Lower standard of living?? Yesterday I drank a bottle of wine from france (with a small "f") ate pesto from Monterey, bought $100 of dollars worth of close for $60 bucks, and $100 pair for $30. I eat sleep and drink like a king and I don't make much money. America has obese epidemic and an unemployment rate of %6. If this is not the land of milk and honey what is??? If you can't make the doe learn a trade, try truck driving it pays 40-50 grand a year, or stucco or masonry or build furniture or roofing, or fishing or real estate or finance or medical supplies salesman or go get your law degree or teaching degree. What planet are you from???? Grow up and get to work!!!

[Joe Hadenuf]

Just today, in the N.Y. Post, there was an entire page article, about the living standards of today and just 30 years ago. More people have telephones, T.V.s, VCR, two story houses, 2 1/2 bathrooms, or more, in their homes, and on and on and on. If opne looks back farther, say 50 or 60 years, the differences, for the BETTER, are remarkable and astounding.

And their debt ratio is through the roof of that two story house. A stunning fact, is that most working class folks are in debt more than ever in history. Pay check pay check, are razor fine, economic line.