shocking propaganda against France

Fédéraliste

[PierreEsbaillart]

I am very shocked by the current propaganda against France and, in a minor extent, Germany and the EU, which is developing on the American web and media. As we are some "old Europe" countries, let me tell you that some elements of this propaganda remind me of the atmosphere that existed between European peoples of 1914-18 : the Frenchman is the USA's Jew, the traitor, the coward, which plants knives in the back. These are paranoid ideas. Bush has declared "you are with us or you are against us"… your enemies are "evil's axis"… A deeply thought political theory which reminds me of older simplistic speeches. Believe the experience of "old Europe", who knows a lot about the matter, and is not proud of it : your war has already begun, you're under propaganda, and rational arguments don't prevail any more.

France was on the Gulf ten years ago, when Irak invaded its neighbour, and when the coalition was covered by the UN to free Kuwait.

According to the NATO alliance, France made clear during the first hours after the 11th September that it was ready to respect its engagements if necessary.

But with the future Anglo-Saxon crusade against Bagdad, things are very different. The OTAN was a defensive alliance against the Pact of Varsovia. To be an ally of the USA doesn't mean to give its allegiance to the USA. It means, in case of aggression by another state, that solidarity becomes effective. Irak has not yet attacked anyone. NATO should have nothing to do with "preventive wars".

Can't you all simply understand this : as you are so powerful, rich, and influent, it's more courageous for France to refuse to engage in this war. There will be retaliation against France for such an attitude. To send a few planes in the Gulf and drop a few bombs, just like the UK or Italy, would have been so simple for France.

French people are not the stupid blind nationalists that your propaganda is pretending they are. French people know they have lost their weight in international politics. But they don't want to abandon their sovereignty to an other organisation than the European union. Is it so scandalous that they want to be free and independent ?

Well, it's true that "we are not with you". Because this is not a war for Irak's freedom and democracy. This is not even a war against terrorism ; this war will create thousands of new terrorists full of hate for America. A government only makes war for its own interest. This war is for the Iraki oil, and to be more independent of Saudi Arabia, the country of the 11th September terrorists, where Al Qaida money comes from. It's a war to completely change the Middle-East and so the world-wide energetic map. I find logical for the USA to defend their interests. The powerful countries have always acted like this. It's cynic and amoral, but, somehow, "natural". But stop talking about democracy, and the Good against Evil. This is not Starwars. This is not a Tolkien's story.

S. Hussein is a dictator, he has massacred and tortured. He probably owns and surely has owned chemical and biological weapons. But what about Libya, Iran, North Korea, China in Tibet, Russia in Chechnya, Israel in Palestine, etc… ? If democracy in Irak is the aim, why does it become urgent right now ? Were the Afghans free when the Talibans were installed to stabilise a country where pipe-lines had to go through ?

France is a traitor, France is isolated - isolated with the rest of the world except the OTAN. That's what your leaders need to make you believe because they don't want you to know that you have mainly a simple Anglo-Saxon coalition. OTAN : approximately 20 countries with the new eastern members - less France, Germany, and Benelux. The rest of the world : Asia, Africa, South America, the Middle East… And the rest of the world fears you but it doesn't love you.

Is it so necessary for the USA to crush all possibility of counterbalancing power ? Do they complain about the treason of an ally or the independence of one of their own "satellite countries" ? They have succeeded in being hated by the whole Moslem world - which owns the main oil reserves. Is it so enjoyable that they now need to invective and humiliate the western European countries trying to build their political union ? Do they love so much to be hated ?

To conclude, here's the dream your government is currently destroying by its politics in western Europe - it was made by an "old", "disloyal", "nationalist", "chauvinist" Frenchman (even a bit socialist, what a monster ! …) :

"Un jour viendra où vous, France, vous, Russie, vous, Angleterre, vous, Allemagne, vous toutes, nations du continent, sans perdre vos qualités distinctes et votre glorieuse individualité, vous vous fondrez étroitement dans une unité supérieure et vous constituerez la fraternité européenne, absolument comme la Bretagne, la Bourgogne, la Lorraine, l'Alsace se sont fondues dans la France […]. Un jour viendra où l'on verra ces deux groupes immenses, les Etats-Unis d'Amérique, les Etats-Unis d'Europe, placés en face l'un de l'autre, se tendant la main par-dessus les mers, échangeant leurs produits, leur commerce, leur industrie, leurs arts, leurs génies, défrichant le globe, colonisant les déserts, améliorant la création sous le regard du Créateur."

VICTOR HUGO, 1849.

(The day will come when you, France, you, Russia, you, England, you, Germany, all of you, nations of the continent, without losing your distinct qualities and your glorious individualities, you will melt closely into a superior unity and you will constitute the European brotherhood, absolutely as Brittany, Burgundy, Lorraine, Alsace have melted into France […]. The day will come when we'll see those two huge groups, the United States of America, the United States of Europe, facing each other, offering hand beyond the seas, exchanging their products, their commerce, their industry, their arts, their genius, clearing the globe, colonising the deserts, improving the creation under the look of the Creator.)

[Izzy Dunne]

The day will come when we'll see those two huge groups, the United States of America, the United States of Europe, facing each other, [...] colonising the deserts,

So get with the program, already...

[mrsmith]

"French people know they have lost their weight in international politics. "

When a nation can't lead or follow, then it must get out of the way.
So long, we'll write y'all from the future, for Lafayette's sake.

[Richard Kimball]

I f*rt in your general direction!

[M Kehoe]

Irak has not yet attacked anyone.

Besides Iran, Kawait, the Kurds, and their own people (not to mention shooting at us all the time), I had to stop reading there.

Welcome to FR. I hope your stay is enjoyable.

5.56mm

[IowaHawk]

I speet on yieux, feelthy Americaines, wiss your 'amburgeurs, and your tailfeens, and your zo-called 'soap'.

[Brett66]

France is weak and irrelevant, when you're overrun by Islamists, we won't bail your butt out this time.

[AdamSelene235]

the Frenchman is the USA's Jew, the traitor, the coward, which plants knives in the back.

Actually, The Jews are still the Jews. And France is doing everything it can to help the Arabs exterminate them.

This war is for the Iraki oil,

Really, then why did we not keep Kuwait?

and to be more independent of Saudi Arabia, the country of the 11th September terrorists, where Al Qaida money comes from.

They are next.

It's a war to completely change the Middle-East and so the world-wide energetic map.

Glad you managed to figure that out.

If democracy in Irak is the aim, why does it become urgent right now ?

Democracy is evil. Two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner. Democracy is what is destroying Europe.

They have succeeded in being hated by the whole Moslem world - which owns the main oil reserves.

Unlike Europe, we get the minority of our oil from the Middle East.

(even a bit socialist, what a monster ! …) :

It is Monstrous...Equivalent to Nazism in my book.

Ask Stalin's victims or Pol Pot's victims or the Buddist monks of Mongolia or the millions suffering from Socialist induced poverty in South America and Africa.

[TomServo]

Shocking, I say

heh heh...

[cardinal4]

France is sinking under islamofascist immigration.

[Colonel_Flagg]

Can't you all simply understand this : as you are so powerful, rich, and influent, it's more courageous for France to refuse to engage in this war.

Let me see if I have this straight. Since we're so powerful, it's courageous for you to sit and watch us get nuked?

Good thing we Yanks didn't think that way in 1944, huh?

[Centurion2000]

Your country is the charter member to the Axis of Weasels.

Now go away or I will taunt you a second time ;)

[MadIvan]

Irak has not yet attacked anyone

Oh? Kuwait and Iran may have a different view on the subject.

Here we have French rationalisation at its worst. Iraq was obliged to disarm as a result of the Gulf War, a war in which Iraq invaded Kuwait. For 12 years it has failed to live up to its obligations.

Here are some things you cannot deny: not only has Iraq failed to live up to its obligation to disarm, it sponsors terrorism, hosting Abu Nidal, no less, and paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel, $25,000 each.

Worse, Iraq was implicated in a plot to kill former President Bush, and even Blix is saying now that it has not declared all its weapons of mass destruction, which according to the UN, it is obligated to do.

Some crusade. This is the culmination of years of violations, lying, brutality and sponsorship of terrorism. I dare say even Chirac realises that Saddam is a bad person.

But realising this is one thing. Actually stepping up to take the action to remove Saddam is another.

J'ACCUSE!

I accuse France of moral cowardice in light of this, not only in refusing to fight, but trying to impede those who would do the right thing.

J'ACCUSE!

I accuse France of complicity in trying to preserve this brutal regime, trying to put up endless delaying tactics, ensuring Saddam's survival.

J'ACCUSE!

I accuse France of being a thoroughly immoral country because not only are you behaving immorally, you dare to lecture Britain and the United States on the subject of morality.

What Britain and the United States require of France is not aid, nor troops, nor money, nor even your affection. Just do that which is the hardest for you. Remain silent for once.

Ivan

[clintonh8r]

Vive le vin California!

[expatpat]

And the rest of the world fears you but it doesn't love you.

Do you think they love you Frenchmen? Don't believe it.

[Slings and Arrows]

If socialized healthcare was all its supposed to be, this poor man would have gotten the medication he so desparately needs to live a normal life. As it is, I can't decide whether it's the schizophrenia or the syphillis talking.

FReegards,
Slings and Arrows

[go star go]

Looks to me like the Frenchman ran away and surrendered yet again. Not one response on this thread from the Frenchman...

[Redcloak]

I've finished my Big Mac and I've moved on to eating French Fries now. If the French had a collective spine, that term, French Fries, would be offensive. But since they're unimportant weasels, I don't care.

Aren't you late for a surrender someplace?

[KarlInOhio]

I would be glad if the French didn't participate in the upcoming war. Primarily because I want the investigation into who is supplying Iraq with materials for making nuclear, biological and chemical weapons unfettered by the French, German and Russian interference. The last thing we need is the French 102nd paper shredder division jumping to the head to the march into Baghdad in the last day of the war.

[Bahbah]

My God, Pierre. It is the time for the civilized cultures to stand against the uncivilized, and this means in large part Islam. You say countries only go to war in their own interests. You believe the lie that it is lust for oil. Americans don't send their young ones off for lucre, but for peace and freedom. Sometimes you can't have peace without war. If you are familiar with history, you know this. So what is France's self interest that keeps it out of this conflict. Economic deals with the Butcher of Bagdad? And for Schroeder, the desire to keep his power. I love France, les francais et les francaise, l'histoire, la literature. Chirac, je ne l'aime pas. Zoot, not Zot.

[holdonnow]

The next time Germany invades your country, ask the Iraqis to save you. It's times like this when nations determine who their true allies are. France and Germany have spoken, and many of us won't forget.